View Full Version : A Question For Jeff Bechtel

09-19-2002, 07:52 AM
Do you acknowledge G12 arms from the same company have been shipped with 2 distinctively different wire types.If so,was the 2nd type submitted
for approval or does the USRA not require approval on such a change in arm spec?

09-19-2002, 08:06 AM
That cat is out of the bag....
Mike, Koford looking for any team racers..?..

Bent rim
09-19-2002, 08:10 AM
They keep passing me over too Larry.

09-19-2002, 08:17 AM
it becomes second nature... lol

09-19-2002, 11:33 AM
did said company change the part number?:rolleyes:

hey Mike...I got a Koford C12 arm that was distinctively different than most of the other Koford arms I've seen....it was a missle...where can I get some more of these?

09-19-2002, 11:36 AM
And they call me an instigator:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Bent rim
09-19-2002, 07:32 PM
Roman, I just sent out your order for 10 gp12 arms.:D

Jeff Bechtel
09-19-2002, 07:58 PM

As you well know, when ordering wire from the wire manufacturer, you do not always receive wire that measures exactly the same everytime. You must also know that you can even measure wire in three different spots on the spool and it not measure the same. For that reason the USRA made the tolerences a range of measurements (.0112"-.0114") and not just "one" measurement. This also happens to be the tolerences that the wire manufacturers say that they can hold the tolerence of #29 guage wire to with their normal process. As long as the wire measures within that range, it is legal. If what you are saying was true, everytime you changed spools of wire you would have to submit a new arm to be approved. I don't think any of you would want to have to do this. As far as some places getting one diameter #29 wire arms and others receiving other diameters of #29 guage wire arms, this could be true for ALL of the manufacturers. (for the reasons I explained above) This would explain the difference for someone purchasing 10 arms and they all measure different. As you may also be aware, a great many raceways out there have old stock. (as well as distributors) This would account for a 20 point difference between the old arms and the new arms. Yes, there is a distinct difference between the wire that Proslot wound their arms with three years ago and now. As I understand it "spec" wire may be purchased from any wire manufacturer. For all of you who don't know what "spec" wire is, I will explain. "Spec" wire is wire that is manufactured to a much closer tolerence than that which is manufactured by standard processes. It is very expensive, but it is more consistant in it's diameter throughout. If a manufacturer wanted to order .0114" wire throughout (the largest legal limit)they may.

To answer your question Mike, it is possible for a manufacturer to ship two different diameters of wire (due to the manufacturer's inconsistent process) but not two different types. #29 guage wire between .0112" and .0114" is #29 guage wire. Your use of the word "types" would in inferr that the manufacturer would be sending out arms wound with two different guages of wire. That has NOT happened.

Now let's put this behind us and go racing. This topic is a done issue. It was a year ago when the USRA sent in the "said" wire and had it measured and found it to be with in the legal limit (.0114") as it was the last two times that it was measured. Enough is enough.

09-19-2002, 09:27 PM
oops...guess I should have actually read the NE Nats thread before replying up there

it sounds like I'm saying I have one of those special Koford arms...when all I actually got was a Koford C12 arm that was actually fast...

09-19-2002, 09:28 PM
stupid slow servers

09-20-2002, 07:33 AM
Beuf called me who had talked to Jeff Dean.What you got was our original
C12 arm(M467-12)It was made to fit in a longer G27 length set-up.We still
make these when we accumulate enough B/O's to make it worthwhile.
I'm glad you're impressed with it's speed and that you purchased it at your
local raceway.You're a credit to the hobby.As far as comparing it to other C12
arms I've said it many times before,go G7 racing,hand wound arms with a smaller quanity of turns are more consistant than Groups.Why buy a bunch of groups to try to find a killer when you can buy 1 Koford open arm and you know it will be good?

09-20-2002, 08:23 AM
actually...jeff just has a really crappy set of calipers and he cant read them...I measured it myself and figured out that it is normal length...and this one I actually didn't buy...a friend gave it to me at the Nats....but I am trying to buy some more through my track...you need to hook us up Mike

I think I single handedly got the entire Great Plains C12 group interested in buying some koford arms...they were all going through them at the counter after the last race...I should get some sort of commission :D

Real Deal
09-21-2002, 07:17 PM

In reference to your reply!

It's that kind of thinking that puts companies like the one you work for behind the 8-BALL! Just step up to the plate and buy some metric wire and make all your C12 arms fast, insted of trying to get that last buck out of that outdated spool of 29 wire.

P. S. Be fast or be last:D

09-23-2002, 12:40 PM
you going to have some Koford C12 arms in time for the Tulsa Slugfest? or should I just get some Proslots?

I need some .490 32 degree Tri-stars...hook a bother up...err brother

Ron Hershman
09-30-2002, 06:11 AM
I agree with you Mike....if you need to know where the "Big Wire" comes from give me a call. The US Wire companies DO NOT MAKE IT, but they will if you spend 400.00 for the tooling and buy a minimum of 1,000 lbs.

"Big Wire" does exsist, but it comes from a foreign source. Believe me, I have a 14 lb spool of the "Big" 29 ga wire.

Yes folks there is a difference in the wire size on the X-12 arms out there both in Box Stock and in Cobalt 12.

The wire is out there and all the Manufactures can get it.....just give me a call.

This could be for the best!!!! Then all racers will have access to this wire now. Not just select racers.

Arms in stock now with Big Wire ready to ship.


Bent rim
09-30-2002, 07:40 AM
Thats my wire! If you don't believe me just ask Swiss! Were you going into my box again?:D You Fast ones guys........;)

Tim T
10-02-2002, 02:39 PM
Hey Mike I have some Koford open arms. I'll bring them to Tulsa you can race them and I'll race yours:eek: