Plastic track

[karmaslot]

In a Plastic track, how many power taps is good?, How often in inches of feet?:confused:confused:

[Red Car Driver]

Ok Karma get ready for some work. The number of power taps is secondary to soldering jumpers between each and every piece of track to insure consistent conduction of power without variation dead sections and undue amp draw from poor rail to rail contact. That being said a 12x'4' should be fine with 2 taps if it's hard wired with jumpers. Use solid core wire for power runs; stranded looses too much amperage. The Wizzard web site has a small plastic track how to section with good pics and info. I dont know how to do the link thing so just google it.
RCD

[Ramcatlarry]

www.wizzardho.com

[E Force 1]

Rule of thumb is one power tap for every ten feet of track. I have a 62' Tomy 4 lane layout and six power taps. I have never lagged on power. All of my joints are unsoldiered except the power taps of course. I have run even Polymer modified cars on my without a hitch.

[Slott V]

test

[karmaslot]

Thank you people for your advice , now I have a much better idea on what to do.
Slott V, test what:confused:

[Raul G]

E Force 1, I just put two 4'x8' plywood tables together for a four lane TOMY HO track for home use,and hopefully for my middle school slot car club! For the moment, to save money, I will be using four factory power packs (one per lane). The track I am laying out is under 60 feet. Do you think this will suffice? Sorry karmaslot, did not want to hijack this thread but thought this might be a pertinent question. I think the closest HO club is in Melbourne (about 4.5 hours). E Force 1, can you explain in more detail what the "power taps"consist of? I have a rough idea but would appreciate any suggestions you may have. Thanks to all of you, us "rookies" can use plenty of help. I have undergone a second slot car childhood birth-what great fun! I am just glad my eyes can still keep up with these G+ cars!

[slotking]

wire guage makes a big difference!

I have 5 taps on a 75' TOMY layout.
I have been asked if I am running 20 volts.

Why
Cause I run 18 volts & 68 amps with 10guage main wire and 12guage secondaries!:D

[GMCullan]

Stranded wire will carry more current than solid core wire of the same guage. Plus, the more the strands, the better. Plenty of technical information out there if you'd like to check it out.

My Banzai BuckTrax is wired with 14 guage silicone jacked wire. The particular wire is double the strand count of nominal 14 guage wire. Two power taps are used. The wiring scheme is what is called "single point" and insures egual power to all lanes.

[Andy]

I'm running a 37' four lane Tomy track using a 10 amp variable voltage power supply and 2 taps. Track is wired with all stranded 12 and 14 Ga. wire. Have yet had or heard any complaints.

[Anthen27]

Stranded wire holds more current than solid? I do not think so...........check your refrences.........12 gauge wire will supply enough amps for any HO track as long as you put the taps every 10-12 feet or so............

[Dangerous Dave]

I run 4 x 45' of plastic track with NO extra power taps...
No probs at all, tho I have soldered the rail joints in most of the corner sections.

To test if you really need extra taps, remove a section, and measure the resistance (ohms) between the exposed ends of the SAME rail - should read negligible ohms.

68 amps available???? it's all wasted, unless you can show me 4 slot cars that can draw 17 amps each :eek:

there's my 10 cents worth anyway
:D

[The Toolman]

For what its worth guys



This page is to provide a single place to look to for what the safe rated capacities of various size wires in general use. These are general guidelines - check with the wire manufacturer or standards body controlling your installation for any additional specifications. Keep in mind that temperature and environment have a dramatic effect on these ratings, and that for wiring it's much better to err on the side of too large a wire than too small.

This page started as a page for 12V DC automotive use, but has grown over time to include a more general set of information on wire sizing. I've tried to add some basic explanations of what matters when sizing a wire and to avoid using too many details specific to certain applications. The actual formulas used to figure this out can be very complex - for example the National Electrical Code specifies the wire sizes to be used in excruciating detail based on years of actual research on what happens to wires in The Real World. Keeping up with all those details can be very hard, but the basic principles are pretty straightforward. My goal for this page is to expose you to those basic concepts, and at the end to give a basic "rule of thumb" chart for folks to start out with.

This page was created to help explain concepts and give an overview of wire capacity and what is factored into deciding on the wire size to use in a given application. This page should not to be considered an authoritative source of exact numbers on what wire size to use. Consult other sources such as wiring codes and manufacturers recommendations on the piece of equipment you are installing for more details. I am not telling you what wire size to use - the information here is provided as-is and without any guarantee as to it's accuracy or completeness. Any issues caused by the use of this information are not my fault - be smart, use common sense, and use this information at your own risk.


Measuring Wire Capacity
First off, the capacity of a wire is actually best measured in watts, not amperage. Why? Because a watt is a unit or power that is a combination of amperage (volume) and voltage (pressure). However, most wire charts are done in amps. This is unfortunate because it means the wire chart is assumed to be at a single voltage level. For most usage, this is fine because the chart has an assumed usage - charts for amperage ratings of of various sizes wires for 110V house current charts are popular and reasonably well-known, but the amperage ratings are very different at 12V. For example, a 12 gauge wire is commonly rated at 20A for 110V usage (20A x 110V = 2200 Watts), but at something more north of 100A for 12V usage (2200 Watts / 12V = 183A). Various de-rating factors come into play and the wires are typically not rated at that high of an amperage at 12V because of it, but you get the basic idea that for 12V usage, the wire can carry more amperage than it can for 110V usage.

The amount of power a wire can safely carry is related to how hot it can safely get. All wires have resistance, and as power flows through a wire that resistance causes heat - and it can be quite a bit of heat. The more power you put through a wire, the hotter it gets. Insulation breaks down as it gets hot, and at some point it will melt away leaving the wire exposed to whatever is around it - other wires, grounded metal, people, etc. The heat can even be enough to start a fire in the surrounding material in some cases. Electrical fires are nasty and tend to start in the hardest to reach places - where the most heat builds up back in dark corners and tight spaces. This is why using the right size wires is important for your safety and for safety of others using your wiring work.



Stranded vs. Solid Wire
This one is a bit of a mind-boggler, but it's important. When electricity flows through a wire, it mostly flows on the surface of the wire, not through the middle. This means that a "wire" of a given size that made up of many smaller strands can carry more power than a solid wire - simply because the stranded wire has more surface area. This is why battery cables in your car and welding cables are made up of many very fine strands of smaller wire - it allows them to safely carry more power with less of that power being dissipated as heat.

When looking at a chart or description of wire capacity, take note of whether it is referring to stranded or solid wire - some charts may not specify but instead assume a default based on the typical wiring used in a given application. For example, almost all automotive wiring is stranded while almost all home wiring is solid.



Open Air vs. Bundles and/or Conduits
Heat is the primary determiner of the maximum amount of power any wire can carry, and the ability of that wire to dissipate that heat has a large impact on the final rating. Wires that are run in bundles (such as in a wiring harness or wiring conduit) cannot dissipate heat as easily as a single wire run in "open air", and as such must be "de-rated" to less than their maximum value to account for this. Also, wires that are run in areas that are unusually hot (such as in an attic or in an engine compartment) may need similar de-ratings. If both situations are encountered together (bundled wires in an unusually hot environment) then you need to re-rate for both factors and the capacity is further reduced.

In a car, almost all wiring is run in a bundle, and much of it runs near the engine. In a house, a lot of wiring typically runs through the attic, often in a bundle/group and sometimes in a conduit. Pay attention to this and size your wires appropriately.



Wire Length
Since all wires have resistance, the longer the wire, the greater the resistance. This means that for longer wiring runs you need to use a larger wire to compensate. This phenomenon is often referred to as "voltage drop", and for lower voltage automotive systems, the loss of 2V or even 1V can be significant. On longer wire runs, plan on using a larger size wire.



Duration of Usage
Some electrical loads are continuous for long periods of times (like a light in your house or the headlights on your car) and some are much more intermittent (like a garbage disposal in your house or the starter in your car). This affects the wire size used - the longer a wire is in use, the more heat it will tend to retain. A wire for something that is only used for short periods (like the starter in your car) does not need quite as large of a wire as something that will be in use for very long periods of time. This means that for long-duration uses, you must de-rate the wire even further and use a larger size.



Electrical Calculations
There are four basic units of measurement for electricity:

Power, measured in Watts, commonly referred to as "P"
Current, measured in Amps, commonly referred to as "I"
Voltage, measured in Volts, commonly referred to as "V"
Resistance, measured in Ohms, commonly referred to as "R"
There are a number of formulas that relate each of these four things - they all change in relationship to one another such that if you know any two you can calculate the other two. Lots of folks on the Internet have easy-to use calculators that allow you to do this online - http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm is one.



Capacity Chart
This chart is a simple "max capacity" chart for a short wire run. Increase the wire size for long runs - for example the wires running to the back of a vehicle to power the taillights may need to be one size larger to account for the length.

Gauge 110V 12V
22 5A 5A
20 7.5A 8A
18 10A 15A
16 13A 30A
14 17A 50A
12 23A 100A
10 33A 150A
8 46A ??A
6 60A ??A
4 80A ??A
2 100A ??A
1 125A ??A
0 150A ??A



Just some info I found. Also FYI, on house wiring (110-115 AC) you can use 1 gauge smaller wire if it is stranded to carry the same amp load as a solid single wire

Ronnie:)

[Kadidle]

Ronnie, while power does flow on the outside of the conductor, at least at low voltages in DC, for AC, you get better performance out of solid. With a wave form the conduction actually passes through the mass, rather then on the outside. This is because the conductor developes localized capacitance, and you end up with more and more power in the core then then one the surface. AC power shunts work based on this capacitance, and allow you to measure the amperage using a millivolt meter.

Obviously for Slot cars or any DC application, your better off with stranded, but for AC, your better off with solid. This is why signal cable (for long runs) on RS422(100 Meter) is solid, whereas RS232 is stranded(10 meter). Also, look at network cables, short patch cables are better stranded, and risers and wall jacks are normally solid.

Which is better? Depends on what your using it for. For us, stranded is probably the way to go. However if you were using AC or high freq. communications, you need solid.

Hope all that made sense! :D

[The Toolman]

Mike

All I know is that my new 6 laner is all wired with 12 stranded and the power (35 amp astron) and timers are about 25 foot away from the track. I think 12 stranded for that will be fine also. Whats yer take on that? I'm always looking for an okey doke when I try something new. LOL

Ronnie :)

[keithgpa]

One question. Anyone in this thread actually have knowledge in Chemestry, Physics, or Electronics? If they do, please tell me what you think electricity really is. I do have a degree but I am really curious about the posters in this thread have to say before I post my response.

[Kadidle]

Hehehe, my masters is in Physics (shhh, don't tell anyone, most people think it's in electronics... hehehe) Anyway, Electricity is just the transfer of electrons across molecules, and is a form of transmissional energy (light OTOH is photonic transfer...) Anyway, the interaction is the question here.

Until a portable Zero Space Energy device is invented (since no Non-Portable unit exists) we're probably going to be stuck with wires, or someone comes up with a better idea... :D

BTW, my degree is in particle physics, so it's not really my area, but they do insist you learn outside of your field... Now if we were talking mesons..... :D Also I haven't used much of my education since university, so your mileage may vary.

[keithgpa]

Great to see someone that gets it Piled Higher and Deeper. That is correct. Moving of electrons over molecules. Molecules make up the whole coper core. It does not travel over the outside of the wire. It moves inside the wire as well. Solid wire will move more electrons whether DC or AC. The advantage of stranded is the flexibility but you lose the current carrying ability. Solid wire will break if bent too many times. Stranded wire can bend thousands of times more than solid wire without breaking totaly. Some strands over time will break earlier than others until they are all broke as can be observed in the black wire to the wiper in parma controlers after years of use. I speak from experience of layout out integrated circuits with high current in micron runners (About the size of human hairs) were there are short DC pulses of 1 amp at times of operation. These runners will in time move the copper molecules from the corners outward displacing them to the outside of the corner in the direction of current flow. This is also why DC electrical motors of industrial scale use very thick copper blocks to move the electricty and switch things on and off. Stranded is for flexibility and solid is for stationary with maximum current capability.

Regards,

Keith

[Anthen27]

I am just a dumb electrician in NYC the largest power demand in 14 square miles anywhere in the world.......For practical reasons stranded and solid are rated for the same amperage.................Electrons missing in the valance of an atom allows current to flow.......Insulators have more electrons in their valance so it does not allow the transfer of electrons......Good conductors (copper, gold, aluminum) have few electrons in their valance which allows current to flow through them.............Use 12 or 10 gauge stranded wire it will be fine for an HO track.......Maybe you guys should be rocket scientists insted of playing with HO cars..................HeHe

[Kadidle]

I had thought of doing that, however I didn't like the crowd, I was raised a farm boy, and frankly 99% of the scientists out there didn't have the common sense the good lord gave a old hunting mutt... :(

Besides, research doesn't pay until you get your name on a patent, and sometimes not even then :(