PDA

View Full Version : Question about early muras and 16d's



stevefzr
10-28-2002, 03:30 AM
I've got a couple of old muas with a red mura sticker on one side, and a black Magnum 88 Magnets sticker on the other. The can looks like a plated oval hole mabuchi 16-d can. Endbell looks like stock 16d mabuchi. The arms in both motors have silver wire and are balanced, and look like they've been polished. Both and endbell end drive. I'm guessing that Mura was buying Mabuchi motors and rewinding them? The winds are pretty full, so perhaps they aren't original. Any info?

And on the subject of 16d's. The 16d's with the can end drive and self centering bearing in the can come in a variety of colours or plated. Do the colours tell you which manufacturer they were made for? If so, then I'm guessing the purple one was for dynamic, as it's the same colour as all the dynamic 26d's I've got. What about the navy coloured one? I've seen that colour 16d before, some time in the 60's or very early 70's.

Thanks,

Steve

Bill from NH
10-28-2002, 06:16 AM
Steve, I have a Champion 507 from that period that is navy blue. I don't know if other manufacturers also used the navy blue color but PDL will know..

Prof Fate
10-28-2002, 09:29 AM
Bet PdL has a better list...

This is just morning pre-coffee memory

I know that AMT used purple(but late in the run, silver grey revell)
Navy Blue also appeared in Hawk.

Fate

Bwaminispeed
10-28-2002, 05:09 PM
Hawk was indeed Navy Blue.I believe Champion bought up all of Hawks remaining stock of cans upon thier early demise from slot car production.

stevefzr
10-29-2002, 04:33 AM
Thanks guys. What about those plated Muras? Any info? Did they come out with silver wire balanced arms?

Thanks,

Steve

dgersh
10-29-2002, 07:54 AM
Steve, now that I think of it, I have a similar Mura motor, using the late Mabuchi can, but the can and endbell are held together with long clips, a la MPC.... does yours have this system?

I'm at office, but will look more closely when I get back home; seems it had the Mura sticker and a Magnum 88 sticker, and possibly the silver wire.

Can't remember a date for you, however - if it was 1969 or so, Mura wasn't doing too much advertising!

Don

Prof Fate
10-29-2002, 08:10 AM
First appeared for novices to fix their cans when they had broken off the tabs. The clips aren't very reliable and everyone I know just drilled a hole, and put in screws.
As for the shiny Muras....This motor is from bad period for me to play "know it all". All through the period of 65-69, I was only buying pieces and other peoples wrecks for parts. There were a great many sloppy "rewinds" being offered, many with silver coated wire and I just did not bother. I thought after 2 days PdL would chime in, he knows this stock in the box stuff a lot better than I. I know even less about Jim's thread on "Big Box" sales practices.
It would help to see a photo. When you say 88s, then I wonder even more. Is this a full 16d can(chromie with oval hole?) What does the endbell look like(black rounded, white or orange with sharp edges). Does the can have a floating brass ball bushing in a cage, or a cheapo ball bearing or a proper 2x5mm ball bearing?

Fate

TSRF
10-29-2002, 09:14 AM
Jeez... How many times do I have to re-paste the same info?

Here we go again...

MURA:
first rewinds: 1966.

Ron Mura purchased Russkit 23 motors (gold Mabuchi FT16 with small can bearing), repainted them in a copper-like color, rewound them with shiny brown #29 wire, and drill-balanced them. These have 2 pin-tabs to hold them together, and slanted block-letter MURA logo in red on a clear background.

Then it gets a bit complex:

Mura made a whole series of rewinds, using stock Revell motors (silver Mabuchi FT16D can with the large brass bearing housing) rewound with green wire and drill-balanced with a sheet metal drill (flat drill). Some have no logos, some have a new oval stripe with the Mura in slanted script, still in red.

Then they produced rewound and de-wound motors and arms for Dynamic, to be used in the Super-Bandit (Green Hornet FT16D can drive motor, repainted over a stock purple AMT unit in light metallic green), Green Hornet II (purple Dynamic FT26 repainted in green and dewound, clear coated, balanced but NOT polished), and the ultra-rare Green Hornet III with polished stack.

Then they issued a whole series of Strombecker "Hemi" chrome plated cans cans with Mabuchi end bells and arms, the logo in black, and the reverse! Mabuchi cans with Hemi end blees and arms! These are called "Hemi-Buchi". Fancy names were on the boxes such as "Devastator MKVI" and the likes.

They also issued a "Kamazaki I" and "II" which were Mabuchi FT26 motors with Simco end bell using Pittnan brushes with a single overhead spring, with nickel-plated cans and the oval logo.

Next, Mura made their first magnets, called "Magnum". They issued a whole series of ex-K&B yellow motors with silver coated copper wire, with a black "Magnum" label and a new trapezoidal metal foil Mura label in red.

Next are the motors which started this thread: in 1967, Mabuchi issued their third generation FT16DBB (for ball bearing), the new can being nickel-plated and the old huge brass bearing housing now made of aluminum and housing an uncaged ball bearing.
While Champion was using the old square-hole cans, Mura used the new Mabuchi with a new magnet, the "Magnum 44", and issued a whole line of complete motors, all with silver coated wire, cans, arms, end bells and motor kits.
These can still be found.
Mura also issued a pair of motor clips, one for the FT16, the other for the FT26 motors, to hold the can and end bell on motors with broken tabs. But no motor was EVER issued by Mura with such implement. Mura ALWAYS used 2 pin tabs on all these early motors.
In the same series, Mura also issued a line of FT26 motors, all using the metal foil label. Mura then made their own can and end bell to compete against the new Champion US-made cans, the 517 and 617 series, and it was "good bye Ma Buchi".

As far as I know, unlike Champion, Lenz, Thorp and many other rewinders, Mura never messed with FT36 motors.

Philippe

TSRF
10-31-2002, 10:01 AM
Paul Meiers is concocting a story about pre-modern motors, and I am supplying him with infos and pictures. This article is to be published in his great magazine sometimes in the next couple issues.
Regards,
Philippe

Slotcaryard
10-31-2002, 09:16 PM
I believe ARCO put out a Navy Blue can as well.

TSRF
10-31-2002, 11:35 PM
ARCO sells gasoline.

Champion sold ARCO magnets.

The blue can motors were called Champion 501, 502, 503, 504 and 507, all produced between 1965 and 1967. I have never seen a 505 or a 506 yet. Only the 507 featured ARCO magnets, first without, then with a one-piece shim.
Here is the picture of the most sought-after, the 507:

http://www.electric-dreams.com/images/Motor-Champion-507-candrive.jpg

Note how the armature stack is ground for dynamic balancing. Pretty crude even by rap-music standards...
:)

Owl Chump
11-01-2002, 11:59 AM
Gee P!

Do the French Rap???? :D

RocketRod
11-01-2002, 06:30 PM
I have one of those old Hemi Strombecker motors in a 1/32 Strombecker Chaparrel -- boy was that fast -- the last time I drove it was in 1983/84 and nothing could keep with it down the straight -- of course the handling was much to be desired.

I am sure I also have a triple silver wound Mura Magnum motor --not sure of the exact year -- but it was purchased brand new and I might have the orginal package yet.

TSRF
11-01-2002, 08:53 PM
"Do the French Rap????"

That would be the end of civilization as we know it.

They have Muslim-Rap. They swallow grenades in the middle of the crowd and it goes off when they burp the couscous. Talk about rocking.

:D :) :p :eek:

TSRF
11-01-2002, 08:55 PM
"I am sure I also have a triple silver wound Mura Magnum motor --not sure of the exact year -- "

That was 1967. Does not make us any younger...
:(

stevefzr
11-04-2002, 06:06 PM
Better late than never I suppose. Here's the photo. I'n not quite sure which of the motors in PDL's post this is. It has the newer mabuchi can with the aluminium bearing housing and a white endbell, the metal foil mura sticker, silver wire balanced arm, but the other sticker says Magnum 88, and I got the impression from PDL's post that the motors with the newer Mura can had Magnum 44 magnets, not Magnum 88's.

<img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/corneille/what/owh007.jpg">

<img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/corneille/what/owh008.jpg">

And on the subject of the early motors, who made this one? Lousy picture, I know. It has a short stack unbalanced arm, and no makers marks that I can find. I assumed it was Mura, but then it has oval holes instead of round ones:
<img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/corneille/what/owh005.jpg">

Thanks, as always,

Steve C.

TSRF
11-04-2002, 10:18 PM
Your Gilbert chassis is a production Gilbert frame from late 1971. It differs from "works" chassis by several details like the single hinge for the side pans.

The Mura motor in the inline chassis is a standard "Magnum 44" produced in large quantities in 1967-68.

The other motor is a Champion-based "C" can motor. See the Champion motor story that will soon be in Slot Car Bulletin.

It's $5.00 please. :eek:
:p