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RomanK
05-29-2011, 12:54 PM
How would you feel about raceways charging a fee for providing live feeds from larger races at their facilities? Would you pay a nominal fee? or do you feel it should be provided for free?

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 01:11 PM
You want my opinion? No???

Tough - I'll give it to ya anyway (or at least an idea...)

You didn't have any "none of the above" or "other" option to check on your poll :rolleyes:

I think that not many people would pay for it, because they expect it to be free. It's also a pain to set up for excepting payments, and not many race hosts are equipped to set it up.

I think a better option is to get a sponsor for the webcam coverage, and then embed the track cam, lap counter, & chat screens onto your track's web site, with the sponsor's banner, logo, or ad on the page.

At least that has worked out a few times for me. :)

Example (http://www.oldweirdherald.com/2010_ISRA_Worlds/index.html)


Kum Ba Ya, Roman! :p

RomanK
05-29-2011, 01:27 PM
Of course I want your opinion PK, you, more than many, know what is involved in doing such a thing.

It seems to me that it's a lot of work for the host raceway, never quite good enough, never quite fast enough, and serving a clientele that is spending ZERO money in the hosts facility. Strictly from a business perspective, I don't see the ROI, UNLESS perhaps, the raceways efforts are part of a much larger, all inclusive business development effort being undertaken by Mfg's, Distributors, and Raceways alike to help improve slot racing on a grand scale. No such effort like that exists at this time AFAIK.

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 02:05 PM
The reasons you just stated are exactly what people didn't understand, when for years they would tell me "why don't you provide live webcam coverage?" at practically every major race event. They figured that if they could chat on Yahoo, or watch girls on porno sites live on webcams... then why couldn't I do it? (cover the race live - not the porno cams!) :p Many expected me to fly around the country to provide this live webcam coverage for free as well. Sure - I'd LOVE to do that - but it ain't free!

Remember the first Nats at The Track? Tony H had planned on setting up a webcam, but at that time it required an expensive high speed connection and a bunch of work & expertise to set it up. Even without the webcam, I wound up sharing the credit card phone line using dial-up connection to upload photos & post race results. It worked out... but it was real frustrating when I had to log off in the middle of uploading photos so then could run a credit card! (I believe I had the same situation at the first BPR Nats in 2000 as well) Man - how times have changed since then!!! :)

Now, with free services like UStream - it is MUCH easier to do it - but it still involves a good internet connection, some equipment, and the time, knowledge, and effort to set it up - let alone to manage it all day during the races! Usually the people who set it up also have a shop to run, a race to run, and often want to race or need to turn marshal as well!

Somehow Shontel managed to do an extremely good job of it at last year's Nats - and I for one know that this was a very impressive accomplishment and all who watched online REALLY appreciated it! Shontel somehow typed live reports between heats even while she was race director. Unfortunately - she raised the bar, and now many people think it's easier then it is and expect it.

There is really no way to judge the ROI for race coverage - whether it is live webcam, or post race reporting. It does, however, tend to really raise awareness of the race event and the raceway - which hopefully should result in increased participation at future events.

Doug was a big believer in this, in getting me to cover the Nats & Barnburner at Port Jeff, as was Lenore & Chris at Buena Park. But with the rising costs of travel, lodging, etc... it is just not practical any more.

By imbedding the webcams & chat on a web page - with an event sponsor ponying up in exchange for the advertising - might be one way to help cover the overhead costs of running the race & live coverage.

I can help to set up the webcam web pages - but then I would also want to host the page and display my advertisers (or charge for my time). The webcam would still have to be set up & maintained by someone on site, since it is definitely not economical to fly me there to do it! (especially since I'm about 10,000 miles away now!)

Thanks for asking! Kum Ba Ya! :)

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 02:20 PM
I had this Idea last year and the track owner said that they didn't want to be the 1st one to try it at the Nats.Thinking they would get beat up by everybody in slotcar racing.I also told Chick"s about the Idea and he said that would be the only way that he would put it on U stream if he could may money with it and I told him he should go for it.If the Track can make more money go for it.And people that don't want to watch it don't have to pay for it.And U stream makes it real easy now to do a pay and view.You should be able to buy it by the day or buy it for the whole week.I know if I was putting on the Nats or Worlds race and I was the track owner It would be a pay and view event. It would also be better to pay for it than not to see at all!!Just my two cents worth

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 03:01 PM
I do not even know any way to set up a pay-per-view for using a UStream webcam feed. I don't think pay-per-view is possible unless you use your own server to host it, which would wind up costing even more... as well as the expense and expertise to set it up, once again.

UStream makes it MUCH cheaper and a TON easier - but then since they are a free hosting service, it is also freely available for anyone to view it. Even if you set up a page like I did, with ads, it doesn't stop anyone from going directly to UStream to view it... so I think people would either do that to get around paying, or just not pay.

Again... the time and expertise to set up the webcams and the pay-per-view payment gateway would greatly increase the expense way beyond the potential income it might generate.

But by offering advertising sponsorship on the even page, with the embedded webcams & chat, that is a much easier solution to monetize the live coverage. Banner advertising programs, like the one I use, can be set up with "channels" or "campaigns" to track how many views & clicks on the ads, so that the owner or sponsor can view reports to judge if the ROI is worth it.

Still... the only way to generate sufficient viewers, is to make sure they find out about it. The only way to do this really is to post announcements on the forums - like here on OWH & others, and on Facebook, Twitter, etc.

With this in mind... the most practical way to do it might be perhaps if I got involved and offered this service, in exchange for some sort of revenue splitting with the host raceway. Event sponsors would need to be recruited and set up special ad campaigns to track the views & clicks - or simply agree on a split of the prepaid advertising, just to help cover my hosting & set-up.

Even if I helped set up the online part - this would still require someone to set up & manage the webcam at the track. Unfortunately, most of the IT guys who have the ability to do it, also tend to be busy guys (or gals?)... and some are also busy racing! If you had to hire someone - they don't come cheap!

Another possibility is to also post ads for selling event T-Shirts on the webcam page... but I have no idea if any big race hosts have sold many race T-Shirts by mail to racers who did not attend. Usually just the racers who attend buy them, AFAIK.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 03:07 PM
Here you go Mom this is U strem pay per view http://www.ustream.tv/ppv

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 03:24 PM
Wow - obviously, with entertainers also using ustream to put on their own shows... as well as sports events, they have already come up with a way to do pay-per-view!

The article even mentions another service that has already done this, but adds that they keep 30% of the revenue. This is a big chunk of the revenue, but still it takes most of the cost out of hosting it and setting up payments, etc.

The ustream info is here:
http://www.ustream.tv/ppv

It is brand new and launching soon...

The key would still be to generate enough viewers. Right now on the Seattle Slugfest live webcam coverage, I believe there were about 9 viewers...
Not exactly enough to make it worth it.... :(

I think at the recent Worlds in Pilson there were around 175 viewer (?) for the Gp 7 main. I forget how many it got up to at the Dallas Nats last year.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Chick, If your watching go for it!! I'm behind you 100% Make all the Money you can anyway you can.This would be the best place to try this you are after all the Raceway of Tomorrow!!! And I had another Idea to, have a Beuf cam over his pit and charge for that to and split it with him.More money for you and him.

swiss
05-29-2011, 03:44 PM
Of minor note, it's "Beuf cam" and make sure none of the pics he has of me taped on his box, are showing.

It just makes Sherri jealous. LOL

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 04:07 PM
Well.... then I guess we know there would be at least 2 people paying to watch the "Beuf Cam"... :lol:

So... if you charged $5 each, that's $10.. minus 30% for UStream... split it with Beuf... buy the IT guy lunch (at McDonalds) for setting up & running the webcam... and you might break even!

But who knows... maybe a bunch of people might pay to watch. But as handsome a devil as Beuf may be... and as much as he may be an icon in the slot car world... he's still not likely to sell as many tickets as Dane Cook.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 04:13 PM
Never know till you try!

shontelh
05-29-2011, 04:16 PM
As you all know, I enjoy posting race results, whether the race is at my track or not. In the past, I've been at home during the Nats, desperate to here some tidbit of info and results. I posted at PA's Nats, Doug's Nats, my Nats and I'll post at Chick's nats if he wants.

For the 2010 Nats in Dallas....I charged more for class sponsorships than anyone had ever done before. BUT, it included benefits that's sponsors had never experienced before. Part of those benefits was their company name scrolling across the live video feed the entire race(s). I explained the process before hand but until racers/mfg's/sponsors actually saw it LIVE, they didn't really understand. Their banners were also in full view the entire 10 days of the Nats. 24 hrs a day you could see the banner of every sponsor. The exposure for companies was enormous.

We broadcast every week. Its doesn't matter if there's 3 racers or 33. If one or two people stumble upon the live feed maybe they will visit a track, in whatever town they live. It's 3 clicks for me to start a broadcast. The web cam cost $60. Ustream is free.

I do not agree with the philosophy "you should have been there". I don't look at the negative, I look at the positive. Will it help slot cars to broadcast the US Nationals??? Well it certainly won't hurt. Why wouldn't you want your track to be shown to the world?

Racers travel from all over the world to race at the Nats. Their family and friends want to see the action. So by not having a live feed you punish the people that want to watch. Or you punish the racers that can't afford to travel or because of family or work. No racer would stay at home if they have an opportunity to attend the Nats.

If the 2012 Nats are at Dallas Slot Cars...I assure you it the live feed, chat and live timing will be broadcast just as we did in 2010.

Shontel

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 04:26 PM
Shontel,

You do realize... that if you win the bid to host the Nats again in 2012... that now nobody will be happy unless you provide an additional "Beuf Cam". :p

Better budget another $60 for another webcam! Maybe GoFast will sponsor it! ;)

shontelh
05-29-2011, 04:31 PM
My intention in 2010 was to have a roaming pit cam with interviews of racers and showing the pits. Unfortunately, we weren't quite prepared.

It will definately be done at Dallas Slot Cars if we win the bid for the 2012 Nationals.

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 04:31 PM
BTW Shontel....

Better be careful - posting such positive posts like that - Roman is likely to start singing "Kum Ba Ya" again! :lol:

swiss
05-29-2011, 04:41 PM
I want free servide.
Do any of you guys go back and reread your posts?

manny
05-29-2011, 04:48 PM
If you want to grow the hobby you must promote. And providing that as a service would be a start. How much would you charge? I for one don't think ANYONE would pay for that at all. Why?

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 04:49 PM
I want free servide.
Do any of you guys go back and reread your posts?

Sometide i do... to add points or etid speeling... do you? :p

Why do you ask?

webbmeister25d
05-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Service is what you get when you pay.
Servide is what you get when it's free.

swiss
05-29-2011, 05:01 PM
Service is what you get when you pay.
Servide is what you get when it's free.
LOL.
Any bets on whether he'll eventually go back and correct the spelling.

PS- I know it's bad form to bring up spelling mistakes on 'blogs but I
would think the text of a poll started by the 'blog's "big cheese" might be correct.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 05:50 PM
If you want to grow the hobby you must promote. And providing that as a service would be a start. How much would you charge? I for one don't think ANYONE would pay for that at all. Why?

Would be a great way for all the KeyBoard Racers, to support a race track afew times a year.And also nothing is Free in this World anymore.(you have to pay for bottle water)(You have to pay for air if you pump up a tire) So why not pay to watch a race and help the Track?

shontelh
05-29-2011, 06:12 PM
Just out of curiosity Tracy....Why are you so passionate about this? You approached me at PJ about charging a pay per view at my Nats. I said never never never. So why is this so important to you?

In my mind, I think if Chick could be persuaded to have a web cam for free then a lot more folks would see your sponsorship. I had over 2000+ unique viewers during the 10 days of the Nats. Doesn't that sound nice and inviting for a track & sponsors.

BTW...Lots of things in this world are free.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 06:17 PM
Just out of curiosity Tracy....Why are you so passionate about this? You approached me at PJ about charging a pay per view at my Nats. I said never never never. So why is this so important to you?

In my mind, I think if Chick could be persuaded to have a web cam for free then a lot more folks would see your sponsorship. I had over 2000+ unique viewers during the 10 days of the Nats. Doesn't that sound nice and inviting for a track & sponsors.

BTW...Lots of things in this world are free.
I would think you being a track owner,That you would want to make all the money you can.Wouldn't you?

shontelh
05-29-2011, 06:22 PM
Being a track owner is not about making a lot of money....ask any of them. Being a track owner is about loving slot cars....ask any of them.

Rumor has it that you might be a track owner in the near future.

But again I ask....why are you so passionate about Chick making a little money with pay per view?

La Cucaracha
05-29-2011, 06:42 PM
I look at the webcams, but the cars are usually too fast for the computer to follow.
Maybe I have a slow hook up or something.
They never look that fast when I`m actually racing.
Maybe I have a slow computer?
Thankfully, I know a little more about Slot Cars than computers. LOL.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 06:42 PM
Being a track owner is not about making a lot of money....ask any of them. Being a track owner is about loving slot cars....ask any of them.

Rumor has it that you might be a track owner in the near future.

But again I ask....why are you so passionate about Chick making a little money with pay per view?

Because Chick's would like to make all the money he can I would think.I don't know about you but making money is better than not making it!!!

shontelh
05-29-2011, 06:54 PM
From the hundreds of racers I have spoken to about a live feed....most want to see a monitor view or similar. However, a view of the drivers panel is also greatly appreciated. Everybody loves the chat.

During the pro race at PJ during 2009 Nats, before the main, I gave a step by step description of PA rebuilding his car. I was seated 2' from him. I never said a word to him. I typed every step of him rebuilding, tweaking, bending, flattening etc etc. The viewers really enjoyed it. I enjoyed doing it.

During all the mains but especially the Pro race....I couldn't see the track. Lots of spectators. But I could smell a motor, hear a stripped gear, see a marshal throw a car to a pit person etc etc. I typed in great detail everything I could see and hear at the track. Again, I did it because I enjoyed it and I knew the viewers enjoyed it.

Tracy...I am not going to get into an argument with you. We are both allowed our own opinions and to express our experiences.

Zippity
05-29-2011, 06:56 PM
you have to pay for bottle water)(You have to pay for air if you pump up a tire) So why not pay to watch a race and help the Track?

I get my water from a tap - free :)

I get the air for my tyres at my local garage - free :)

I would not pay to watch a race via the internet - why should I?

Jump to 2011 - the Dark Ages are dead and gone and we now walk upright with our heads in the air :D :D

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 07:12 PM
I get my water from a tap - free :)

I get the air for my tyres at my local garage - free :)

I would not pay to watch a race via the internet - why should I?

Jump to 2011 - the Dark Ages are dead and gone and we now walk upright with our heads in the air :D :D
Did you watch any of the Worlds last week for Free??

shontelh
05-29-2011, 07:17 PM
I watched the Worlds....every race from qualifying to the mains. Yes, it was the middle of the night and yes it was worth it. Yes, I wished I was there. Yes, it was free.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 07:29 PM
I watched the Worlds....every race from qualifying to the mains. Yes, it was the middle of the night and yes it was worth it. Yes, I wished I was there. Yes, it was free.

Would you have paid say $9.99 for the week to watch it? If it wasn't Free!!

dsr96
05-29-2011, 07:38 PM
Why would they pay? when you have owners that are more intrested in growing the sport and bring people in that might not know what a slot car is. plus it was a great way to promote there track and all the work that went into making it happen

shontelh
05-29-2011, 07:39 PM
So $9.99 is what price you think Chick should charge? How many viewers would you guestimate would pay $9.99?

No, as passionate I am about slot cars....as much as I want to promote slot cars.....I wouldn not pay to watch.

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 07:47 PM
I guess we'll have to see how the pay-per-view thing pans out. The link to the Dane Cook live show (mentioned as the first show for the new pay-per-view in the article Tracy linked) did not work... so I don't know if it's not up yet or already done, or what?

I have found that time and again, in my 16 years or so of being on the internet, that (1) people expect everything online to be free, and (2) people have grown to expect plenty of advertising online.

Years ago, Microsoft tried to charge for their online magazine "Slate" and the idea bombed. Nobody wanted to pay for it. Anyone who was ready to jump on the pay-per-view bandwagon for webzines quickly bailed out, and the focus went back to ways to monotize online content through advertising. Advertising online has gone from annoying pop-ups and pop-unders to clever use of different size & shape text & image ads that are use all sorts of keywords & cookies to target ads to the viewers.

If somebody wants to try out the pay-per-view webcam - more power to them... but my prediction is that it will not generate enough paying viewers to be worth the trouble. Slot car racing simply already has too small of a niche audience, and charging to see it is simply NOT the way to attract potential new people to the hobby.

Raceways do need to make money to stay open - but to charge potential newbees to see it is more likely to scare them off then to attract them. I think the opportunity to expose this hobby to the masses - or at least those who discover it on high traffic sites like UStream - greatly outweighs the potential for making money off of the few or even the hundred already initiated enthusiasts willing to pay a few bucks to see their buddies or relatives race.

If you look at the UStream web site, it utilizes a lot of social media type gadgets displaying similar or suggested links to other live & recorded events - making it much more likely to attract new viewers. The potential to expose the hobby to new viewers who may have been watching 1/1 car racing or other sports events - or anything that displays the slot car webcast to potential new viewers is huge - in my opinion.

Perhaps there is now way to prove that this puts any additional money in the race hosts pocket for their event - but the increased exposure sure can't hurt to promote the hobby. And for every time someone sees "Dallas Slot Cars" videos or webcast, there are bound to be at least a few who will look them up or visit.

I am watching the Seattle Slugfest on UStream right now, and I've seen Dallas Slot Cars' channel links pop up many times in the "Recommended" show list on the lower right of the page... among the other keyword related suggested shows. This kind of cross-promotion by high traffic web sites like UStream (as well as eBay, Facebook, etc.) are great ways to promote the hobby... and they are FREE.

Tracy - I am not trying to shoot down your enthusiasm for trying pay-per-view. I guess I just do not agree that it is the way to go.

I'm with Shontel on this one - and I think she has done a fantastic job on several occasions with helping provide online coverage. While she has done it "for the love of the hobby" - I believe that she has also demonstrated that it can also be a successful means for not only promoting the hobby, the event, and the raceway, but also for monetizing the coverage. By offering all the additional advertising benefits at the Dallas Nats, she mentioned that she was able to charge more for sponsorship. I would also think that the sponsors would be pleased with all the increased exposure that they got for their money. I think that she has the right idea for how to promote the hobby, and in turn also promote her raceway & business.

Servide wid a smile!
Right, Mike? ;)

Kum Ba Ya, Roman... come on, sing along... they gotta have it on the Karaoke here!
(Karaoke has got to be the number one past-time here in the Philippines)

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 07:57 PM
So $9.99 is what price you think Chick should charge? How many viewers would you guestimate would pay $9.99?

No, as passionate I am about slot cars....as much as I want to promote slot cars.....I wouldn not pay to watch.

Thank You for your answer(some how i don't belive It, after your last post with all the passionate you have for the sport) But your answer is what it is Thank You

Zippity
05-29-2011, 08:22 PM
As much as I love slot cars, I would not pay to watch it on the internet.

What would I be watching anyway? A few blurrs on the track without any closeups, race commentary or race interviews?

You have to offer the punter something before you expect him to pay :)

Shontel is right.

dsr96
05-29-2011, 08:28 PM
Whats next Tracy? Do you want track owners to charge admission to people that want to walk in and watch the nats???

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 08:34 PM
This Has pros and Cons just like everthing else. I think its a great way for track owners to make more money,But if the track owners don't want to try to make more money thats ok to.I would like to at least see one try it. and see if it would make the track more money before everone blows it out of the water.If we don't have tracks we have no place to race !And when you only make 40% on parts it real hard to pay the rent on that.

New York Nick
05-29-2011, 08:39 PM
I voted for the raceways need the money, if the stream would be better.

shontelh
05-29-2011, 08:39 PM
Thank You for your answer(some how i don't belive It, after your last post with all the passionate you have for the sport) But your answer is what it is Thank You

As usual, a discussion disintegrates into accusations and name calling.

You all know how I feel and what I'm willing to do for the sport. Maybe, as a female I look at things differently. But nickel and dimming racers is not the way to make them happy or keep them happy. I'd rather promote than alienate racers. Every track has to get racers in the door before they can make any money off of them.

I wont be posting anything else on this thread. I've listed all the experiences I have had.

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 08:45 PM
As usual, a discussion disintegrates into accusations and name calling.

You all know how I feel and what I'm willing to do for the sport. Maybe, as a female I look at things differently. But nickel and dimming racers is not the way to make them happy or keep them happy. I'd rather promote than alienate racers. Every track has to get racers in the door before they can make any money off of them.

I wont be posting anything else on this thread. I've listed all the experiences I have had.
I'm not talking about the racers coming in the door ,I'm talking about the racers watching online for free all over the World.And thank you for your Experiences

dsr96
05-29-2011, 08:51 PM
There is a fine line between makin a little more money and running off future racers and in this day and age we all want to see more racers at the tracks. so rather that charging people to watch races how about we all start helping track owners promote there next big race or even there weekly races that keep the tracks going.

Zippity
05-29-2011, 09:20 PM
If we don't have tracks we have no place to race !And when you only make 40% on parts it real hard to pay the rent on that.

Not that hackneyed old worn out argument again :( :(

"If you don't eat your greens you can't have any pudding"

"If you don't eat your crusts, you won't get curly hair"

RickT
05-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Tracy,

Now you want to bring pay per view to slot racing ?

This is comic relief at it's best... to damn funny. Do you really think a raceway making a couple hundred bucks once a year is going to save the raceways ? please tell me you just fail to think that statement out... how about the other 99.99 percent of the raceways that don't host a Nats, how is pay per view going to help them ? The fact is all raceways need exposure and free internet web cams and coverage is one way to get that... end of story

The raceways need long term promoting of the raceway and the hobby, not just a fly by night one time pay per view deal to make a few hundred bucks.

If you really have the raceways in your best interest then why not offer the raceways a discount on balancing and reconditioning arms. I think you told me at Port Jeff you charged 5.00 to recondition an arm, discount that to the raceways for 4.00. The raceways can send their customers arms to you and they (raceway) can make 20%

Mr.GoFast
05-29-2011, 09:27 PM
Not that hackneyed old worn out argument again :( :(

"If you don't eat your greens you can't have any pudding"

"If you don't eat your crusts, you won't get curly hair"

If I was a Track owner, I would blast your A$$ out of the water!!!

Zippity
05-29-2011, 09:56 PM
If you were a track owner with that sort of attitude you wouldn't be in business :) :)

oldweirdherald
05-29-2011, 11:20 PM
Here we go again...

And people wonder why I step in with my "can't we all just along?" & "Kum Ba Ya" type posts, and then lock threads... :rolleyes:

Tracy - I get that your intention is to find a way for track owners and Nats host tracks can make enough $ to justify the expense of live webcam coverage.

I simply disagree that pay-per-view will work, or be a good way to accomplish that. I have studied internet marketing for years, and I don't claim to be an expert, but I've watched these trends. Shontel is a successful track owner and recent Nats host. We're not trying to shoot down your idea - we simply disagree.

Zippity, on the other hand... loves a good debate, and often steps over the line a bit... (hint, hint) :p

I'm NOT against a raceway trying to make money. But the initial question regarded whether they should charge money for racers (and friends & family) who are NOT attending, to watch online, to help cover the cost of the webcast - or to make a profit.

You are missing my points as well as Shontel's points...

My points are:

(1) It won't work. There are simply not enough people willing to pay to watch to generate enough revenue to make it worth the effort.

This is my OPINION. If somebody tries it and proves me wrong - I'll be the first to admit it and I'd be happy for them.

(2) I think it would be more cost effective to use advertising & sponsorship to cover the webcam coverage then to use pay-per-view.
This is my educated opinion, and ties in with the next points...

(3) I think that providing FREE webcam for viewers, using a high traffic medium like UStream, there is a much greater opportunity to expose the hobby, the event, and the raceway... to a large audience of potential new customers/racers.

(4) By promoting the hobby/event/raceway using the free resources like UStream, Facebook, etc... it ultimately helps to grow the hobby, which can indirectly or eventually also help to grow the raceway (hopefully even directly - since viewers from their area could also discover the raceway and wind up becoming customers and racers).

These last two are combining points made by me and by Shontel.

Zippity's last little zinger reminds me of the old saying - "you can catch more flies with honey then with vinegar".
I agree with the sentiment, but not with the tone of delivery (of either of yours or his last posts). Once again -I'm hoping to keep things constructive and positive. :rolleyes: (no more zingers please... ok?)

I'm feeling Shontel's frustration a bit, because it seems like you keep beating the pay-per-view drum, but don't appear to be acknowledging or getting OUR points. It's OK if disagree - but it would be nice if you at least listen and try to understand or at least consider our points.

I am really thrilled that Shontel has freely helped provide online race coverage these past few years, and I appreciate her efforts. I will always do my part to promote the webcam coverage and any promotion that will help to expose the hobby, the events, and the raceways... thus hopefully helping them to gain new customers and ultimately grow the hobby.

This is how I believe they can all make some money, by keeping the webcams free for the viewers.

Perhaps our ideas are long term instead of short term, but I believe it would benefit a lot more then just the host raceway.

I think I've said all I can say on this... I do hope you at least get my points.

BTW - I've had this same discussion and made all the same arguments in the past when people have suggested that I should have OWH be pay-per-view or a membership funded site. OWH is getting over 10,000 visitors PER DAY. Just how many visitors do you think OWH would get if I charged? And how many potential new racers???

Kum Ba Ya.... blah blah blah... my work is done here... :p

slotcarsten
05-30-2011, 12:59 AM
I for one like to think I had something to do with it.
For many years it was my dream to be able to follow big event, but as I am sure for 99% of you, I did not have the financial or time to travel the globe to do so.
For that reason I made the LapMaster software. With this we first started broadcasting the Lap counter and timing "live" from the 2007 European Plafit championship. At this time we had no web-cams and no Ustream existed.
In 2008 we had a web-cam with stills from every 5 second interval. Before the 2010 Dallas Show, Shontel and I worked closely and intens on raising the bar, and we came up with the unbeatable Live-Timing/Ustream/Chat combination.
Adding to that the extraordinary abilities of Shontel to man the chat while working as race director at the same time, I beleive we moved high level slot-car racing forward, bigtime. I don't think the 250 spectator high mark from the event has been surpassed yet.
It really raised the bar, and now aday we have come to expect big events to be webcast.

The intention was, and has always been to promote the hobby. If you sign up for hosting a major event, providing a webcast to loved ones of the racers, fellow club members or plain and simple newcomers to the sport, is simply part of the package.
(And while we are at it, failure to man the chat is what is holding back the success of post Dallas events)

While doing all the ground work, ofcause we all had the dream to become the Bernie Eckelstone of slotracing. However the audience needs to be much (MUCH) bigger before pay-per-view is even relevant. The free-per-view needs to grow the audience into tens-of-thounsands before pay-per-view should be considered. Slot racing is a participant sport, not a spectator sport. However better information systems like LapMaster and manned chat can make the events interesting to follow, and might help the sport grow rather than decline.

GearBear
05-30-2011, 01:25 AM
So, while I agree that tracks need to make money to survive. I also feel they need to find a way to get the word out and promote to get business. To me, providing race coverage comes under that category. Just like any other advertising.

Also, quite frankly, I can't see ANYONE actually paying to watch a slot car race on the internet. Shoot, I won't even pay to watch a NASCAR or F1 race on the internet, so why would I do that for a slot car race that I likely don't know the racers and where you literally can't see the cars on the track anyway most of the time.

Having worked at a large internet company that survives on the advertisers on it's site, I can tell you that what Paul is saying about having Google ads on the site WORKS. Sure it won't bring in a lot of money but it WILL bring in about the same amount of money as making people pay for the ability to watch a race.

IMHO, if you really want to get people to get the track more money, then provide "just in time coverage" (IE: as soon as humanly possible given your situation) and put the video coverage on the front page of your online store front. Make it so that people can browse the store front while surfing through/ordering your parts. Now you have created the best of both worlds. You have given people the ability to view your race coverage while also enticing them to buy from YOU. To me, that is a WIN WIN situation!

Zippity
05-30-2011, 02:28 AM
I guess I was trying to say what Paul, Carsten and Gary said - just not in so many words :)

fatbear
05-30-2011, 05:39 AM
I like the idea of the roaming cams. I though it would be cool to do it more like a TV show with interviews, race commentators, slow-mo replays (for the crashes) etc. Hard to get track owners to by into as it requires more cameras, mixing software and skilled interviewers and race commentators as Paul mentioned it cost$.

Love to hear what viewers expect when they turn in to existing live cams and what they would like to see. Am I too grandiose in my thinking. How about this a reality show based on "Slot Car Racers." Would you watch?

Scale Series
05-30-2011, 06:09 AM
I beleive we moved high level slot-car racing forward, bigtime. I don't think the 250 spectator high mark from the event has been surpassed yet.
It really raised the bar, and now aday we have come to expect big events to be webcast.
.

I'll let Cheater / Brassy chime in with the excact amount, but I believe the total was greater for his webcast of the Sano 3?


As far as charging money I agree with Shontel's sponsorship method. Personally, I can't see paying for anything that I usually get bored with viewing after about 15-20 minutes. Most of the chat while viewing an event seems to be confusion about who, what, or when with something to do with or someone at the event? Face it slot racing is a participation hobby, not really a spectator event. Most of the watching in person usually revolves around talking to old friends at the track while watching the race. That being said I think Tracy should talk Chick into doing it as a Pay Per View for the Div 1 Nat's so he can tell us how it well it worked :surprised: I'm betting it will also tell everyone to never think of doing it again :lol:

Mr.GoFast
05-30-2011, 06:59 AM
I am just looking at it as another tool to make the Nats track more money.The track makes 40% on parts. The track can make 70% on pay per veiw.How many people would pay for it I don't know, nobody has try it.I know I would pay to watch and to help the track make more money if I could not make it to the race.Do away with the word (pay per view) and call it a entry fee from home to help the track because I couldn't make the race.Just trying to help the Tracks

jradford
05-30-2011, 11:56 AM
We did live webcam coverage and chat at the Flats. It was relatively simple to setup with just a couple webcams and a laptop. We also did webcam coverage at the Slugfest this past weekend. Its pretty low budget as we didn't have an extra person to man it and give play by play (we that run the place are also racers). It would be great to have great split screen color commentary for the entire event done by people who know slot car racing, but the best we can do is provide the live feeds and hopefully keep it from being a mystery. With a large budget for equipment we can do a better job, but until then we'll keep doing the best we can. We have no intention of charging for live coverage. We will continue to enhance our coverage as time goes on without any cost to racers interested in our events and raceway.

Ingram
05-30-2011, 04:14 PM
I have to agree with most of the people on this one. The live feed is nice for those of us who can't make the bigger events and if can catch the attention of other race fans then all the better. Trying to charge for it though would most likely keep almost everyone away. The way to make track owners more money is to get MORE PEOPLE involved. If I can watch Nascar, NHRA, SCCA, Formula 1,IndyCar, Motocross, even RC, in fact almost any kind of racing you can think of for free, why would I pay to watch a slot car race ? Just the opposite should be done in the form of coupons or offers to bring people to the tracks because the general public has no idea that slot cars still exist and are more fun than ever !

BennyJ
05-30-2011, 05:07 PM
If you just want to make the tracks more money get rid of all the back door selling and the manufactor packages coming into the raceway during race week.

backintheslot
05-30-2011, 05:43 PM
As you all know, I enjoy posting race results, whether the race is at my track or not. In the past, I've been at home during the Nats, desperate to here some tidbit of info and results. I posted at PA's Nats, Doug's Nats, my Nats and I'll post at Chick's nats if he wants.

For the 2010 Nats in Dallas....I charged more for class sponsorships than anyone had ever done before. BUT, it included benefits that's sponsors had never experienced before. Part of those benefits was their company name scrolling across the live video feed the entire race(s). I explained the process before hand but until racers/mfg's/sponsors actually saw it LIVE, they didn't really understand. Their banners were also in full view the entire 10 days of the Nats. 24 hrs a day you could see the banner of every sponsor. The exposure for companies was enormous.

We broadcast every week. Its doesn't matter if there's 3 racers or 33. If one or two people stumble upon the live feed maybe they will visit a track, in whatever town they live. It's 3 clicks for me to start a broadcast. The web cam cost $60. Ustream is free.

I do not agree with the philosophy "you should have been there". I don't look at the negative, I look at the positive. Will it help slot cars to broadcast the US Nationals??? Well it certainly won't hurt. Why wouldn't you want your track to be shown to the world?

Racers travel from all over the world to race at the Nats. Their family and friends want to see the action. So by not having a live feed you punish the people that want to watch. Or you punish the racers that can't afford to travel or because of family or work. No racer would stay at home if they have an opportunity to attend the Nats.

If the 2012 Nats are at Dallas Slot Cars...I assure you it the live feed, chat and live timing will be broadcast just as we did in 2010.

Shontel

A womans touch to save slot car racing and promote the hobby! Hmmmmmmm Are you reading this fella's?

Shontel, I Love You!...................Just don't tell my wife!:p

Big Mike1
05-30-2011, 07:04 PM
I personally like tracy's idea as a raceway owner. But as ive read through all these post its going back to the old thread about wats reasonable for entry fees? If you cant make it to a bog race but want to watch it at home the raceway owner not only looses out on entry fees but once again the racer thinks he/she should be able to watch from home for free? I do hope chick does this and can make enough off of it to at least pay the light bill for a month!!! I personally added up what its going to cost me to go to the nats for 10 days and i stopped at three grand so to sit at home and pay 10 or even 20 dollars would be a great deal but i can go and am going to be at the race, instead of sitting on my keyboard griping about what did or did not happen and who entered into which classes. I would of paid more to watch the worlds in the cz cause it would of costed more to go!!!!!!!!!!! thats just my opinion we belong to a rather expensive hobby that attracts some cheap people. NO disrespect to anyone thats just what ive seen in the last 3 years of racing and been racing for over 20years

Scale Series
05-30-2011, 07:24 PM
for a month!!! I personally added up what its going to cost me to go to the nats for 10 days and i stopped at three grand so to sit at home and pay 10 or even 20 dollars would be a great deal but i can go and am going to be at the race, instead of sitting on my keyboard griping about what did or did not happen and who entered into which classes.


No a better deal would regardless if going to the Nat's or staying at home and watching it would be to go to your local raceway and race there that weekend. What percentage of slot racers ever go to a big race or the Nat's? Keeping the local track open will do more for the local racer than having some Nat's track pay their light bill.

BTW: The Nat's comment is generic and no way directed toward Chick's or any past Div 1 or Div 2 hosting raceway.

FWIW: Shontel is one of the nicest track owners I've ever met. Met her and some of the Dallas crew at a big retro race a couple of years ago. I was on vacation in Dallas during their move and called the raceway just to stop over. Since they were moving and not open they informed me what classes were being raced in Fort Worth that night and offered equipment for me to use if I was going to go race. That's hospitality! How many raceways would offer equipment for someone to use at their competitor or even acknowlege thier existance.

tnttires
05-31-2011, 06:05 AM
My question would be will the PPV be able to handle a larger number of viewers than Web Cam without losing the feed or pausing. In Dallas when it went over 125+ the feed got iffy, at the World's when it went over 150+ the same happen.
You stated $9.95 fee and the Track got 70% but what is the Initial Cost of the Service. You must cover the cost of the service to break even. Say the service is $300 you would need 43 subscribers to break even. If 175 viewers were watching the Worlds and only 18% say they would pay to watch then you would have 32 subscribers. How many were casual or drop in viewers I don't know but the number of viewers remained fairly constant during the Open Main. Even if you had 100 subscibers will $700 make this a success and increase your long term business?
I know this just an example and probably not close to accurate but you can not look at the fact that the Track will get $7 per viewer, there is some overhead involved I would assume.
I have spent my whole life as an Accountant trying to make sure businesses are profitable, tracks that are successful have a plan to get people in the door whether it is thru Birthday Parties, Car Clubs, Cub Scout Troops, Schools or advertising, once you get them in the door you need to have a good race problem in place that is run every week.
Traffic is the secret to long term success you must have new people seeing our hobby, slot racers are cyclable they are racing for a while then they take a break for a while then they are back, you build a good race program by filling those gaps with new racers.
Port Jeff and Chicagoland have Race Programs for Kids what a great idea, they can compete against their piers, some will become good racers.
Port Jeff includes a Kids Race in his Barnburner etc. As a result of this program all of us old Racers have to deal with Lil Brian and Timmy Skura.
If everyone has thought this thru and know what the true cost will be and what your breakeven point is then go for it, but in my opinion working hard at promoting this race to increase the number of racers will be more important.

tommy_gunn
05-31-2011, 06:34 AM
Why do most people watch the live feed? To see there friends at the drivers panel? Nope. To see the cars whizzing around the track? Nope. How about to see the results as they are racing? Yea, I think thats it. So, without a live feed, I will be able to see the results as soon as they are posted on OWH. Yep, So what's the need to pay for anything.

I think you guys need to understand that just a couple of years ago, we didn't even have the webcams to watch the live racing. And, NOW you want to charge for it? Right......

I don't think our sport is ready for a pay-per-view. Maybe in a few more years but, right now we need exposure. And a lot of it.

How about the USRA step up and purchase a webcam and carry it to the Nats raceway and setup for free. That way the raceway gets the exposure and it doesn't cost them anything. It does need to be a mutual thing. The raceway and the USRA both get advertising.

Archie

Mr.GoFast
05-31-2011, 02:04 PM
My question would be will the PPV be able to handle a larger number of viewers than Web Cam without losing the feed or pausing. In Dallas when it went over 125+ the feed got iffy, at the World's when it went over 150+ the same happen.
You stated $9.95 fee and the Track got 70% but what is the Initial Cost of the Service. You must cover the cost of the service to break even. Say the service is $300 you would need 43 subscribers to break even. If 175 viewers were watching the Worlds and only 18% say they would pay to watch then you would have 32 subscribers. How many were casual or drop in viewers I don't know but the number of viewers remained fairly constant during the Open Main. Even if you had 100 subscibers will $700 make this a success and increase your long term business?
I know this just an example and probably not close to accurate but you can not look at the fact that the Track will get $7 per viewer, there is some overhead involved I would assume.
I have spent my whole life as an Accountant trying to make sure businesses are profitable, tracks that are successful have a plan to get people in the door whether it is thru Birthday Parties, Car Clubs, Cub Scout Troops, Schools or advertising, once you get them in the door you need to have a good race problem in place that is run every week.
Traffic is the secret to long term success you must have new people seeing our hobby, slot racers are cyclable they are racing for a while then they take a break for a while then they are back, you build a good race program by filling those gaps with new racers.
Port Jeff and Chicagoland have Race Programs for Kids what a great idea, they can compete against their piers, some will become good racers.
Port Jeff includes a Kids Race in his Barnburner etc. As a result of this program all of us old Racers have to deal with Lil Brian and Timmy Skura.
If everyone has thought this thru and know what the true cost will be and what your breakeven point is then go for it, but in my opinion working hard at promoting this race to increase the number of racers will be more important.

There's no setup fee whatsoever. Ustream only takes a portion of ticket sales so you'll never need to worry about costs
Also if you use the number 100 subscibers and you make $700.00 a track would have to sell $1800.00 dollars in retail parts to make the same money at 40% off. Buy just looking at the numbers

Zippity
05-31-2011, 02:15 PM
Horse + Dead + Flog it

Your survey results speak loud and clear :( :(

Big Mike1
05-31-2011, 02:33 PM
Tracy good point how many of these racers are going to purchase 1800.00 worth of parts from a raceway that they never even step in the door? to answer that question NONE. So i think chick should try it and see what does he have to loose a bunch of keyboard racers who probably will never race at his raceway p1$$ed off at him, please let me take the blame for that one if ur reading this chick charge for the web cam at the nats and if anyone complains blame it on me! lol

Big Mike1
05-31-2011, 02:36 PM
Horse + Dead + Flog it

Your survey results speak loud and clear :( :(

Zippity, how much of the worlds coverage did you watch and if you did why? I'm just curious if it would of cost you 9.95 for the week and you knew you were gonna watch it im sure you would pay the fee. Right

Big Mike1
05-31-2011, 02:38 PM
Tracy, 9.95 is alot of money to watch a race thats 2 movies on the ppv spank-o-vision and a bag of cheeto's. Maybe ppv slot racing is the cure for arthritis in the wrists of slot racers world wide:p

Zippity
05-31-2011, 03:39 PM
Zippity, how much of the worlds coverage did you watch and if you did why? I'm just curious if it would of cost you 9.95 for the week and you knew you were gonna watch it im sure you would pay the fee. Right

What has that got to do with anything?

Please try comparing apples with elephants :( :(

Now look at your watch. Notice anything?

Big Mike1
05-31-2011, 03:46 PM
What has that got to do with anything?

Please try comparing apples with elephants :( :(

Now look at your watch. Notice anything?

Just the times are changing and were almost half way through the year 2011 so its time to start paying to watch big events if you want raceways to stay open? I STILL DIDNT GET A ANSWER WOULD YOU OF SAT AT HOME SURFING EPAY OR WOULD YOU HAVE PAID 9.95 TO WATCH THE WORLDS?

Ingram
05-31-2011, 04:52 PM
Just the times are changing and were almost half way through the year 2011 so its time to start paying to watch big events if you want raceways to stay open? I STILL DIDNT GET A ANSWER WOULD YOU OF SAT AT HOME SURFING EPAY OR WOULD YOU HAVE PAID 9.95 TO WATCH THE WORLDS?

MIke,
You are out of touch with the target market, just check the survey. BTW I not only watched parts of the worlds but also have recently watched Div 2 Nats at Mid America and bits of Seattle Slugfest. None of which I would have watched if there was a fee involved. If I had paid for any of them I would have been upset with the quality and coverage. Since they were free then I was happy to get a glimpse at some great action even with the quirks and spotty coverage.

So lets look at your numbers. First, according to the survey only 18% are willing to pay, lets be generous and round up to 25. 25 x9.95 = $248.75. So you are telling me that $250 once every couple of years if you are lucky to host one of the big events is going to make or break a raceway. On the other hand, 1

Zippity
05-31-2011, 04:59 PM
Just the times are changing and were almost half way through the year 2011 so its time to start paying to watch big events if you want raceways to stay open? I STILL DIDNT GET A ANSWER WOULD YOU OF SAT AT HOME SURFING EPAY OR WOULD YOU HAVE PAID 9.95 TO WATCH THE WORLDS?

My comment about looking at your watch is relevant. When it was day there, it was night here. When it was day here, it was night there. Our respective time zones are diametrically opposed :( so no, I didn't watch any of their racing.

Now ask me if I ever watch USA based web cam reports. The answer is yes.

But would I pay to watch? NO WAY, Jose :) :)

Ingram
05-31-2011, 05:02 PM
1 new racer at an average of 2 races per month, more in winter less in summer, add track time and parts would well surpass the $1800. The key as stated by others is to get people in the door.

If there is a fee to watch from Chicks, then sadly I will not be watching. However if it is free I will watch and encourage others I know to check it out and try to get them to a track. Me paying $9.95 to watch Chicks will not help Dwight Adamson (local track owner) keep his doors open and I doubt very much that he will ever attempt to host a national level race to cash in on that $250 !

RickT
05-31-2011, 05:23 PM
As Zippity said the people have spoken in the poll... 18 percent of the people would pay, so that would mean you have 18 to 20 people paying for pay per view ? The 200.00 or less the track will be making is going to keep the raceway open ? The other 80 percent of the people you just alienated! It seems to me you two (Tracy and Mike) are letting the greed of a small amount of money cloud your vision of the big picture.

The fact is all raceways need all the free exposure they can get, broadcasting major races or any race gives the track exposure for FREE. Pay per view would hurt the exposure the track gets ! This is very simple guys, just think about the big picture.

I would never pay to watch a race on line, has nothing to do with the amount of money. I would pay 10 bucks to watch (2) two grasshoppers wrestle, It's the principle, meaning this concept will have a negative impact on the raceways. This is excellent example of people not thinking about the big picture and what is best for slot racing.

Ingram
05-31-2011, 05:51 PM
What is really a concern here is that we have a Mfg and a current USRA Div 1 official making this push.

This is a great hobby that we as a group need to learn how to promote. I would not have been away for so long if I had known that it was still alive and kicking. Think more bodies = more revenue, not more revenue from same old people. There are more people like me out there who don't realize there are still commercial tracks and racing programs. The competitive options available today are better than at any other time. The current ES24 race in Seattle had 4 different drivers whose best lap time was only a couple of thous different. Retro racing is almost always a coin toss between 4-5 different people. Falcon / Hawk Flexi is a great entry point as is FCR. Add Wing cars, full glue and spray, G27L, OMO, Drag Racing, Scale(Ninco, Slot-it), Drag even HO. Oops, forgot hard bodies ! How can we not get more people interested ? Let's see, we could try to charge them for checking it out, hmm, why dont we just charge admission for people walking in the doors of the local track. Chicks could try that this year and let us know how it works ! Really no different than what is being suggested.

Mr.GoFast
05-31-2011, 06:22 PM
As Zippity said the people have spoken in the poll... 18 percent of the people would pay, so that would mean you have 18 to 20 people paying for pay per view ? The 200.00 or less the track will be making is going to keep the raceway open ? The other 80 percent of the people you just alienated! It seems to me you two (Tracy and Mike) are letting the greed of a small amount of money cloud your vision of the big picture.

The fact is all raceways need all the free exposure they can get, broadcasting major races or any race gives the track exposure for FREE. Pay per view would hurt the exposure the track gets ! This is very simple guys, just think about the big picture.

I would never pay to watch a race on line, has nothing to do with the amount of money. I would pay 10 bucks to watch (2) two grasshoppers wrestle, It's the principle, meaning this concept will have a negative impact on the raceways. This is excellent example of people not thinking about the big picture and what is best for slot racing.

Who would have thought 20 years ago that you could put water in a bottle and sell it today at $1.45 per bottle??? Answer: some one smart that try it!!!

Mr.GoFast
05-31-2011, 06:34 PM
What is really a concern here is that we have a Mfg and a current USRA Div 1 official making this push.

This is a great hobby that we as a group need to learn how to promote. I would not have been away for so long if I had known that it was still alive and kicking. Think more bodies = more revenue, not more revenue from same old people. There are more people like me out there who don't realize there are still commercial tracks and racing programs. The competitive options available today are better than at any other time. The current ES24 race in Seattle had 4 different drivers whose best lap time was only a couple of thous different. Retro racing is almost always a coin toss between 4-5 different people. Falcon / Hawk Flexi is a great entry point as is FCR. Add Wing cars, full glue and spray, G27L, OMO, Drag Racing, Scale(Ninco, Slot-it), Drag even HO. Oops, forgot hard bodies ! How can we not get more people interested ? Let's see, we could try to charge them for checking it out, hmm, why dont we just charge admission for people walking in the doors of the local track. Chicks could try that this year and let us know how it works ! Really no different than what is being suggested.

Very Different if they show up and come in the door you might can sell them something.If someone is at home, watching for free how can you sell him something? Answer: Entry Fee from the keyboard!!

Big Mike1
05-31-2011, 06:50 PM
What is really a concern here is that we have a Mfg and a current USRA Div 1 official making this push.

This is a great hobby that we as a group need to learn how to promote. I would not have been away for so long if I had known that it was still alive and kicking. Think more bodies = more revenue, not more revenue from same old people. There are more people like me out there who don't realize there are still commercial tracks and racing programs. The competitive options available today are better than at any other time. The current ES24 race in Seattle had 4 different drivers whose best lap time was only a couple of thous different. Retro racing is almost always a coin toss between 4-5 different people. Falcon / Hawk Flexi is a great entry point as is FCR. Add Wing cars, full glue and spray, G27L, OMO, Drag Racing, Scale(Ninco, Slot-it), Drag even HO. Oops, forgot hard bodies ! How can we not get more people interested ? Let's see, we could try to charge them for checking it out, hmm, why dont we just charge admission for people walking in the doors of the local track. Chicks could try that this year and let us know how it works ! Really no different than what is being suggested.

Ok, I see your point but I still agree with tracy someone needs to try it i can almost gurantee that anyone who used to race and dosen't anymore would not pay let alone be looking for live webcast of the worlds or the nats I however can gurantee that the 150 or so viewers ARE SLOTCAR RACERS who for some reason could not attend the race and are interested in seeing how someone they know is doing so if the raceway can make a dollar or two off that so be it. I am a raceway owner and will gove it a try if i ever have a big race and will talk to the guys at skidmarks and see if their up to giving it a try if your not a raceway owner you have no idea what the cost involved in keeping the doors open is and i would guess that if you did you would think were all a little crazy but we all do it because we like the racing and people involved with it and i know some of them people may or may not like the simple fact that this is a small hobby and the floor space cost money like has been stated before if you dont support the raceways where you like to race and spend money how good is all the money sitting in your box if you have no tracks to run on so if said track has a big race and charges to watch on the web that helps them keep their doors open and you a place to race or you could just turn your race cars into paper weights or maybe some sort of dart board in your garage.

Zippity
05-31-2011, 07:08 PM
Who would have thought 20 years ago that you could put water in a bottle and sell it today at $1.45 per bottle??? Answer: some one smart that try it!!!

Who would think that you have to buy water in a bottle today? I get mine free out of a tap.

So what is your point?

As I said in Post 64 - Horse + Dead + Flog it

Mr.GoFast
05-31-2011, 07:17 PM
Who would think that you have to buy water in a bottle today? I get mine free out of a tap.

So what is your point?

As I said in Post 64 - Horse + Dead + Flog it



Zippity I am trying real hard not to throw you any zingers here!!!!!

jdracer
05-31-2011, 07:21 PM
I watched the Nats in Dallas, the worlds and the slugfest........ if I had to pay to watch I wouldn't...... I don't think anyone would pay to watch.... anyone that would want to see what a friend or the big boys were doing, would either call someone there or wait till it was posted on OWH...... track owner at Wade Raceway is talking about setting up a cam to stream our weekly races, for free, to get exposure for the track to get racers in the area that may not know the track is here to come race... to let them see what is happening at our races......you can never get enough advertizing for your track..... there is always people coming into the track that didn't even know it was there......

key word.... ADVERTIZING ....... the use of the web cam is pure advertizing......

backintheslot
05-31-2011, 08:25 PM
With all due respect, I don't see Chick jumping on the band wagon here. I only see two people beating the pay per view drum while telling the man what he should do for his race.

So, With that being said, Mr. Go fast and Big Mike, Why don't the two of you get together, throw a big event, Promote it and then test your theory on pay per view yourselves and then share the outcome with everyone rather than trying to ram it down the throats of the posters in this thread who have clearly stated their opinion in the poll!

Just saying...........................NEXT!

RickT
05-31-2011, 08:35 PM
Tracy i was trying to refrain from doing this...But i have located Vernon and i'm sending him a bus ticket with your address so he can stop in for a visit and help with this debate. Just think, it will be like old times !! LOL

Zippity
05-31-2011, 08:36 PM
And I'll ask again, what is a "zinger"? :(


NOTE FOR MODERATOR: Please don't cancel this simple request for an explanation :(

backintheslot
05-31-2011, 08:40 PM
Zip, A zinger is the same thing as taking a p!ss at someone. Follow?

Mr.GoFast
05-31-2011, 08:42 PM
Breaking News: We have found something that Zippity knows nothing about!!! Zingers

Jeff714
05-31-2011, 08:44 PM
The poll results couldn't be any more decisive! This is starting to take on a sad and hopeless grasping for stalls kinda feel to it...

Anyone besides me hear a fat lady singing!?!

backintheslot
05-31-2011, 08:49 PM
And she just fell over.

Ingram
05-31-2011, 09:29 PM
I agree Zip,

I have put my 2 cents in and all but a couple of people realize that the free coverage is a valuable advertising tool to get NEW racers rather than trying to squeeze a couple more bucks out of those already hooked.
On to more productive threads like Slot Racer or Scratchbuilding

oldweirdherald
06-01-2011, 12:41 AM
OK, gang... since we answered Zippity's question about what a "zinger" is (and it's purely a thing with different slang in different cultures, "eh?") - then I don't think we really need this to turn into a thread to demonstrate the practice. :rolleyes:

(The last few exchanges of "zingers" have now been deleted by "mom")


I think Ingram really summed up the point that many of us have been trying to make very nicely:


I would not have been away for so long if I had known that it was still alive and kicking. Think more bodies = more revenue, not more revenue from same old people. There are more people like me out there who don't realize there are still commercial tracks and racing programs.

The part you are not seeing is - do you want to try to make a few bucks off of a few people... or use the opportunity to expose the hobby (AND your business) to a whole bunch of potential NEW customers.

Personally the thought of putting "Big John" verses "Big Mike" in a ring to settle this dispute once and for all, and putting it on live "pay-per-view" webcam (of course!) did cross my mind... perhaps toss Zippity vs Tracy in there and make it "tag team" event! (now THAT I might just pay to watch! :lol: ) but... perhaps Big John's suggestion to "try it" is a tad more sensible. :p

Here's another little "zinger" I could toss into the mix... (hey, it's my forum... only I get to break my own rules) :p

If these track owners decide to go after the almighty dollar to try to make a few bucks off of webcam coverage... how will people even find out about it??? Here on OWH???? What's in it for ME??? Perhaps I should charge them for advertising their pay-per-view webcam coverage! Hey - I've got bills to pay too! In fact, maybe I should make OWH Slot Car Talk pay-per-view. Then I could make a few bucks from those same few keyboard racers who debate topics like this! (wait a minute... but the ones on my side of the debate, won't pay to be IN the debate!) ;) :lol:

Of course - I am saying this just to be silly while still attempting to belabor my point. :p I always have and will always do everything I can to help promote this hobby, raceways & race events.

Thankfully (and perhaps ironically???) I have managed to keep this forum alive, available, and FREE due to the help and support of PAYING SPONSORS... like... Tracy of GoFast. :)

So far... that method is working well enough for me. (donations from readers & Google ads has helped as well). But then, I have pretty low overhead, and I'm really just trying to cover a few bills... not get rich... :rolleyes:

I really do think we have now beaten this dead horse on this topic. While it frustrates me that Tracy & Big Mike do not seem to get the point that myself & others are continually trying to make... they are certainly entitled to their opinion.

I suppose the only way to find out, let alone squash this debate, as Big John suggested... is for someone to try it.

I guess I just gave mouth-to-mouth to the old horse, attempting to bring it back... but I think it's still dead.
:sick:

BennyJ
06-01-2011, 06:40 AM
Tracy i was trying to refrain from doing this...But i have located Vernon and i'm sending him a bus ticket with your address so he can stop in for a visit and help with this debate. Just think, it will be like old times !! LOL

I remember one race in Nashville at Tip Top Raceway when Vernon left to go get his gun.. Every time the door opened after that everyone was expecting him to come through and clean house.

Big Mike1
06-01-2011, 08:55 AM
I remember one race in Nashville at Tip Top Raceway when Vernon left to go get his gun.. Every time the door opened after that everyone was expecting him to come through and clean house.


Benny, you missed the nats last year when in the 27 lite race my glock fell out of the holster and hit the floor it turned a couple racers whiter than ghost and yelling TTTRRRRAAACCCKKKKK!

oldweirdherald
06-01-2011, 09:06 AM
But Shontel... this IS the "other thread". :p

Still... the gun thing is a bit off topic. But then I really think the original topic is DEAD.

What do ya think? Time to close it???

Mr.GoFast
06-01-2011, 09:19 AM
I don't see why after what you just posted on the other thread. ( Dallas Slot Cars on TV) About paying $2.99 to watch something that was Free. And had only 10 mins of slotcars on it,Maybe $9.95 is to cheap for a whole week at the nats. And also if I was doing a pay per view you would be my 1st phone call to help me with the advertising and I would not mind at all to pay you for it.

Scale Series
06-01-2011, 09:24 AM
Benny, you missed the nats last year when in the 27 lite race my glock fell out of the holster and hit the floor it turned a couple racers whiter than ghost and yelling TTTRRRRAAACCCKKKKK!


It's permited to bring firearms to USRA National Events :surprised: :( I'm actually horrified that someone would actually think of bringing a gun into raceway and then joke about it. Someone seriously needs to make a proposal.

shontelh
06-01-2011, 09:33 AM
I hate for any thread to be locked because most times racers/manuf true colors come out during a hot debate. Sometimes their intentions are harder to see.

Strange thing about this long thread....no word from Chick. Tracy followed by Mike have expressed repeatedly how they think it should be tried. Most of the other posts are about convincing them why it's a bad idea. But still they insist. But no word from Chick.

It's Chick's Nat's, he will do what he thinks is best.

Big Mike1
06-01-2011, 09:44 AM
It's permited to bring firearms to USRA National Events :surprised: :( Someone needs to make a proposal

I agree someone should make a proposal, but there is nothing in the rule book on it, and i did talk to the track owner before the nats and we were in texas everythings better there. And it was a accident that wont happen again!

So MOM just what is the line that should be drawn for paying to watch a race and of coarse please add your cut for the advertisement, we already know 2.99 is not too much so if it was 2.99 per day and theres 10 days for the nats that would be 29.90 for the entire thing multiplied by the 100 or so viewers thats 2990.00 minus 30 percent that means the raceway would make 2093.00 for the 10 days not a bad deal for the raceway owner. Now lets ask the raceway owners that have hosted the nats the last 5 years if they could of used a extra 2 grand or exactly how much money they actually made in parts sales during the time of the nats (dont think parts sales were that great but i havent asked lately) the race entry fees probably weren't much more than that so if a raceway could double their money during the nats why wouldnt they, im sure the racers (who dont have the overhead) are going to object until everyone does it.

hesketh
06-01-2011, 10:36 AM
I keep seeing a reference to all the new racers that can be attracted by a free web cam of the race? I watch a few of these web cam events. I watched a lot of the Worlds, I watched a lot of Shontelh's race and it sure seems like the people watching and at least on the chat were pretty hardcore types trying to follow a specific class or specific racers, about half of them seemed to be from Brazil, so I keep wondering just what new racers you are referring to? The chance of some newbie stumbling on to a live stream of the Nats and becoming so enthralled by what he sees that he runs out and buys a program to start racing (excuse the tongue in cheek) is so small as to be measured in nano percentages. Of course everyone wants it for free, everybody wants everything for free! The only real question is can a raceway net more with PPV or advertising supported free streaming and by net I mean after all the aggro, because if your charging someone you can't get away with overloaded bandwidth and halting pixellated feeds.

oldweirdherald
06-01-2011, 11:49 AM
Hoo boy... I should have known I was in trouble when I posted that in the other thread...
(but thankfully, at least I didn't wind up hijacking that thread... so far)

OK... I did say that after all that Shontel has done to promote slot car racing FOR FREE, that I would not mind paying $2.99 (which would go to iTunes and I assume part to SpikeTV, not to Shontel) to see a professionally produced TV show, seen by thousands of viewers on cable TV, about Shontel & Jay's raceway... even if it is only 20 seconds or a few minutes. I also figure this is one of the MINOR inconveniences I have to pay for choosing to be in another country. Geez... I figure its $2.99 to pay for a TV show, but on the other hand I can get a 1 hour full body Thai massage for 300 pesos (about $7 bucks) or dinner for two at a nice restaurant for about the same here. Trade-offs.

Paying to watch a few blurs on a webcam while trying to figure who is driving them, and if I know them... is another thing. But that's not my point. I already stated my feelings numerous times, and it's not about my being cheap - it was opinion regarding charging for live webcam from a marketing & business perspective, as well as in principle.

Bottom line is - I do not see pay-per-view as something that be cost effective or generate enough ROI... verses the POTENTIAL benefit (impossible to measure) as a promotional tool.

Hesketh raises a good question as to how many people might stumble across the slot car webcast. A good point, but when I have been on the live chat, I have answered questions from stumblers on several occasions, so at least I know there are some. I think the "related links" below the webcam on UStream can help reach at least a few people with somewhat related interests. Out of millions of ustream viewers, at least there is potential for a few stumblers. I also realized that my OWH page with the imbedded webcams bypasses that particular feature. :(

It kinda rubs me wrong when I see comments about all those "keyboard racers who will probably never set foot in the raceway, let alone ever spend a dime there". If that is the attitude of the race host - then why set up a webcam at all??? While you're at it, you might as well charge admission at the door, or lock it up and only allow paid entries. How many of those spectators are going to spend money? They're just in the way of the "five fat guys still racing wing cars" (reference to an old old OWH thread and running inside joke). [SARCASM] :rolleyes:

So... here we go again. We can agree to disagree. I have my opinion and you have yours. If Tracy, Big Mike, Chick, or someone else tries it and proves me wrong... I will be surprised, but happy for you.

Until then all we (and that includes myself) are truly flogging a dead horse here.

I am trying hard not to judge people based on them having a different opinion... but I would have to admit, it does let me know a bit about their business philosophy.

And to those who make negative comments about all of us "keyboard racers".... right here... on an online forum... typing away on your keyboard.... HELLLLLOOOOO???? A tad ironic... ya think??? :lol: Yeah... those darned keyboard racers!!! :p

You know... I could probably sit here in the Philippines, 8,000 miles from my "home track"... typing away on my keyboard for the next TEN YEARS.... and I bet I would still have been to more slot car races then most of you put together! (Swiss or Hershman - you don't count)

Yup... even though I'm a "keyboard racer"... up until recently I used to go to about 3 races per week... at different raceways & clubs, different scales & types... spanning 5 decades... and I still managed to "keyboard race" when I got home. :p

I'm kinda surprised nobody jumped on the "Big John" verses "Big Mike" pay-per-view remark I made a few posts up. More evidence yet that nobody reads my posts!!! :lol:

Kum Ba Ya.... my a$$! :lol:

Mr.GoFast
06-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Hoo boy... I should have known I was in trouble when I posted that in the other thread...
(but thankfully, at least I didn't wind up hijacking that thread... so far)

OK... I did say that after all that Shontel has done to promote slot car racing FOR FREE, that I would not mind paying $2.99 (which would go to iTunes and I assume part to SpikeTV, not to Shontel) to see a professionally produced TV show, seen by thousands of viewers on cable TV, about Shontel & Jay's raceway... even if it is only 20 seconds or a few minutes. I also figure this is one of the MINOR inconveniences I have to pay for choosing to be in another country. Geez... I figure its $2.99 to pay for a TV show, but on the other hand I can get a 1 hour full body Thai massage for 300 pesos (about $7 bucks) or dinner for two at a nice restaurant for about the same here. Trade-offs.

Paying to watch a few blurs on a webcam while trying to figure who is driving them, and if I know them... is another thing. But that's not my point. I already stated my feelings numerous times, and it's not about my being cheap - it was opinion regarding charging for live webcam from a marketing & business perspective, as well as in principle.

Bottom line is - I do not see pay-per-view as something that be cost effective or generate enough ROI... verses the POTENTIAL benefit (impossible to measure) as a promotional tool.

Hesketh raises a good question as to how many people might stumble across the slot car webcast. A good point, but when I have been on the live chat, I have answered questions from stumblers on several occasions, so at least I know there are some. I think the "related links" below the webcam on UStream can help reach at least a few people with somewhat related interests. Out of millions of ustream viewers, at least there is potential for a few stumblers. I also realized that my OWH page with the imbedded webcams bypasses that particular feature. :(

It kinda rubs me wrong when I see comments about all those "keyboard racers who will probably never set foot in the raceway, let alone ever spend a dime there". If that is the attitude of the race host - then why set up a webcam at all??? While you're at it, you might as well charge admission at the door, or lock it up and only allow paid entries. How many of those spectators are going to spend money? They're just in the way of the "five fat guys still racing wing cars" (reference to an old old OWH thread and running inside joke). [SARCASM] :rolleyes:

So... here we go again. We can agree to disagree. I have my opinion and you have yours. If Tracy, Big Mike, Chick, or someone else tries it and proves me wrong... I will be surprised, but happy for you.

Until then all we (and that includes myself) are truly flogging a dead horse here.

I am trying hard not to judge people based on them having a different opinion... but I would have to admit, it does let me know a bit about their business philosophy.

And to those who make negative comments about all of us "keyboard racers".... right here... on an online forum... typing away on your keyboard.... HELLLLLOOOOO???? A tad ironic... ya think??? :lol: Yeah... those darned keyboard racers!!! :p

You know... I could probably sit here in the Philippines, 8,000 miles from my "home track"... typing away on my keyboard for the next TEN YEARS.... and I bet I would still have been to more slot car races then most of you put together! (Swiss or Hershman - you don't count)

Yup... even though I'm a "keyboard racer"... up until recently I used to go to about 3 races per week... at different raceways & clubs, different scales & types... spanning 5 decades... and I still managed to "keyboard race" when I got home. :p

I'm kinda surprised nobody jumped on the "Big John" verses "Big Mike" pay-per-view remark I made a few posts up. More evidence yet that nobody reads my posts!!! :lol:

Kum Ba Ya.... my a$$! :lol:

I have been reading your post!!!! LOL

oldweirdherald
06-01-2011, 12:14 PM
KEYBOARD RACER!!!! :p

Sure... but it's MUCH easier to simply "reply with quote" - then to actually READ all my long-winded keyboard marathon posts! ;)

:lol: (just messing with ya!)

Big Mike1
06-01-2011, 12:32 PM
Mom, both Tracy and I got a laugh out of that one but we would insist on the tag team match and get zip involved, lol. This is what I am not understanding is you would pay 2.99 to itunes and spike tv to see something you cannot see where your at but you would not pay 2.99 a day to watch a hobby you have so much passion for that you created a free forum for the others who enjoy the same thing you do? I may be crazy but if I had a chance to pay to watch the worlds or any other race for that matter i would do it, some have brought up the fact that all other forms of racing you can watch for free but how much exactly is your cable or dish bill? The whole idea behind the ppv webcams is to HELP keep the tracks you race on open not a mfg and usra official looking to make a few bucks because there is nothing in it for us just a way for the tracks to keep their doors open, while were at that have you ever went to a nascar race at a track and watched the race for free NO you had to pay for the seats you sat in right. So if someone comes to the nats "just to watch" they should have to pay some sort of fee to get in the door kind of like when a racer has their box in a pit spot all week they pay pit fees for every day why should the spectator get something the racer has to pay for, come on guys we have all became acustom to watching the races from the safety of our keyboards now its time to "pay to play" or show up and "shut up and race". I also think that there should be a regulation of usra members who get to decide on the rule changes, but thats a whole nother topic. So now im done with that thread and have talked to chick and have gotten his insite on all this and i guess youll see what his answer was to me in august!!

Zippity
06-01-2011, 01:39 PM
What a waste of bandwidth and an extra cost to Paul, to come back with a 26 line quote and a miserable one line reply :(

I'm ashamed at you Trac with a y

Mr.GoFast
06-01-2011, 01:49 PM
Just so happens that I help pay the bill on here and I can post the way I want to!!!! ( long as PK will let me) So you can read it for free.

backintheslot
06-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Big John vs Big Mike in a a PPV extravagansa...........Oh the humanity!

My question is, Who is going to pay the appearance money, the food bill, the purse and the lodging along with the track time?

Do we check our Glock's at the door?:p

This dead horse is starting to attract flies!

Big Mike1
06-01-2011, 02:08 PM
Ok I see john has a sence of humor also but is it just me or does anyone else on the board find it ironic that the most annoying one on here's name also break down to zip-it-y must of thought that one out for a while before asking permission to use it as a screen name and what year was the last year any of these ppl that are complaining about paying to see the nats actually attended a USRA Nats? I only know of a couple that were at last years nats so lets make em pay to see and btw Pk If you wanted to get rich or have some good talks and discussion about how to get slot racers to the track start charging a keyboard racing fee that could keep you with your love and pay the bills for a while until the cheapo's decided to "shut up and race" BTW Paul how can you get a nice meal for 2 for about 7 bucks i cant eat off the dollar menu at mcdonalds myself that cheap? maybe i should ship my track to the islands and pay you to run it if food is that cheap then we could become millionaires charging for live web feeds and rental cars

oldweirdherald
06-01-2011, 02:14 PM
What a waste of bandwidth and an extra cost to Paul, to come back with a 26 line quote and a miserable one line reply :(

I'm ashamed at you Trac with a y

ZINGER ALERT! (hint hint)

Hey - good thing I pay by the month - not by the bandwidth! :p

Well... there is actually a bandwidth limit... but believe me, you'd have to do a lot more then quote posts, and you'd still not get anywhere close.

Like I said... we'll just have to agree to disagree at this point. (unless you guys do want to get in the ring on pay-per-view & duke it out).

At least until someone proves me wrong. (perhaps we'll find out soon :( )

I've said my piece.

(OFF TOPIC ALERT) BTW - Big Mike: You wouldn't believe how cheap most things are here. I had to go to the dentist the other day to have a tooth pulled. The dentist office had all the latest equipment and looked like any in the USA, and the dentist had a wall full of certificates. IMO she was a better dentist then any I've had back home. The total bill was 300 pesos (same as the massage or dinner I mentioned - about $7 USD). Back in the USA that would have set me back at LEAST a couple hundred $$! (last time I went it was over $2,000)

We went to a really nice beach resort recently with about 30 family & friends... cost was something like $25... not each - that was TOTAL!

And everywhere I go, gorgeous gals treat me like I'm some sort of rock star! (most assume all foreigners are rich LOL). Of course, I'm very happy to be with my honey, she is wonderful... but the all the attention is sure flattering and hard to get used to! :)

I still miss racing & my friends... but hey... at least I can still keep in touch here and watch for FREE on a webcam! :p

Maybe I should just go back to the beach & set up a webcam.... (notice how I attempt to get back on topic? :p )

Zippity
06-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Tracy - a good come back :)

I bow to your superiority ;)

Scale Series
06-01-2011, 05:10 PM
what year was the last year any of these ppl that are complaining about paying to see the nats actually attended a USRA Nats? I only know of a couple that were at last years nats so lets make em pay to see


What difference does it make what year those who have voted or voiced their oppinion attended a Nat's? Looking at the list of those who voted a majority have participated in a Div 1 or Div 2 Nat's at some point in their racing career. Looking at the list of the 7 who voted to charge, I see Shontel's name was on there. My guess because there wasn't an option of having sponsors pay for the webcam since she has posted that she thought it should be free for anyone to view? Then you really only have 6

What I don't understand is why Paul just doesn't lock this thing up? You guys have been told repeatedly, if you want to do it or have convinced Chick's to do it, than do it. :sleeping: Tell us how it worked out after the Nat's is over. ;) You guys have been as sucessfull in trying to convince everyone this is such a good idea as I have been trying to convince my 9 year old to eat something other than a cheeseburger when we go to Chinatown.

Zippity
06-01-2011, 05:21 PM
Horse meat is cheap today :) :) :)

shontelh
06-01-2011, 05:21 PM
My vote was an error. It's not possible to change it once I made the wrong click.

There will never be a charge for a braodcast from my track. Sponsors for the 2010 Nats received a huge bonus of advertisment because of the live feed. But that was part of their package. I broadcast everyday we are open.

I can't believe the number of PM's, emails and phone calls that I've had over this thread, Tracy and Mike.

MacMoose
06-01-2011, 06:36 PM
OK, folks... been reading this thread for a while now and I can't take any more of it without comment.
First: Success in business can be achieved by FINDING A NEED and then FILLING IT. The poll says that there's no need.
Second: It's hard to get a premium price for low-end service. Every webcam of a slot race that I've seen (yup... I watch 'em) wasn't very good (no offense to the nice people who provided them intended), and the faster the cars were, the worse things got. It's particularly maddening when the audio runs 15 to 20 seconds ahead of the video.
Third: Positive thinking is all well and good, but you can positive-think your *** off and still fail miserably unless you do some critical thinking along with it.
Fourth: If you ask a question and don't get the answer you want, shut up... there's no sense in making a damn fool of yourself (paraphrasing W.C. Fields there.... credit where credit's due).
Fifth: $1800 in parts sales is a big number? You have GOT to be kidding me. I was present at a LOCAL series race and watched the raceway take in $700 in a single afternoon. Of course, if the Nats continue to decline in participation maybe $1800 will be a big number.
Sixth: As long as we're talking about making money... it seems to me that the USRA is the sanctioning body and should have a split of the broadcast income. Or did I miss a USRA official bringing that up?

My personal vote was no based on my second comment above.

tommy_gunn
06-09-2011, 12:16 PM
It appears that Mr. GoFast has confirmed PPV for the NATS at chicks!

How sad that family and friends have to pay for webcam coverage over 9 days to watch only one or two races. I know my wife isn't going to pay to watch me......LOL

I hope this works out for you guys because I feel like you will be sadly disappointed in the actual number of viewers willing to pay to watch a Beuf cam. (No offense Beuf)

Archie

dsr96
06-09-2011, 01:03 PM
Why make the sport cost more money

Zippity
06-09-2011, 01:22 PM
So there are still some folks walking around on this planet who have their heads firmly inserted up their own @@@@@ :) :)

Big Mike1
06-09-2011, 02:42 PM
So there are still some folks walking around on this planet who have their heads firmly inserted up their own @@@@@ :) :)

Most are from what they call down under mate welsome to the 21st century. Come on now guys lets be men here it is chicks race and he made the call on this one if he wants to charge the ones who CHOOSE to stay at home so be it looks like if you want to see the nats its gonna cost ya a few dollars a day or a couple dollar menu items at mcdonalds Heck even at 4 dollars a day "mom" will just have to get a 30 minute massage instead of the whole hour, lmao. Zip were all allowed to have our own opinions on this but i dont feel that trying to point out you dont like it by saying certain folks have their heads where the sun dont shine (downunder?) come on man you pay 12 dollars for a membership each year and have no intentions of coming to the nats why is that? But when it comes to a track owner wanting to charge you to watch a race at his facility ( one of the nicest in the world) he get criticised! Hes just looking to try something new and its a great idea for him to try it you never know until its tried!

RomanK
06-09-2011, 03:10 PM
I originally started this poll as a knee jerk reaction to reading some folks griping about live coverage not being adequate or fast enough or some other such silliness at a recent race. Along with that, it seems that often times, whenever someone sets up live coverage there's always someone that isn't quite satisfied and has some remark to that extent. Some of the live broadcasting efforts have been great, some not so much but all, up until now, have been free and I found it quite astonishing that someone would have the gall to question it.

This poll/thread took on a very different direction at some point with the PPV ideas. Agreed that I feel we have to find a way for raceways to make more money but at best PPV will be a minimal fund raiser and at worst could allienate alot of folks. My choice up until now has been to not offer live coverage from races at The TRACK, as I saw it as taking away my time from racers that were in the raceway. I felt they deserved my attention more so than those not in the raceway. Others have seen it differently and have done a great job making the service available, still others see some potential to make the raceway some money and are moving forward with their ideas.

Racers or should I say Observers will show how they feel about PPV both verbally here on OWH and ultimately with ther $$ as the event unfolds but until then I think we should all do our best to make the Nats at Chicks Hobbiz a very well attended event by doing all we can to attend ourselves and to encourage other to attend. Good attendance solves many of the others problems we tend to discuss.

tommy_gunn
06-09-2011, 03:15 PM
Ok Gun boy,

As an officer of the USRA, YOU are the reason people have an issue with the problems of the USRA. YOU don't have an opinon as an individual any longer, YOU speak on behalf of the entire Association. And right now, you're not making a very good impression. Stop taking sides. It unhealthy to the organization and slot racing as a whole.

I haven't seen chick post one thing yet about PPV. It has been YOU and Tracy?

Sit back, re-load some ammo and get your stuff ready. Texas will be in the house of Virgina in full force. So bring out your big guns, I know I will.

One more thing, the poll in this thread speaks for itsself. Maybe, You and Tracy should do this year for free, to get an idea of how good (or how bad) this could be. Then, if all goes well, you charge from next year on?

Something else, how does the PPV work. Do you get a login and password so you can keep coming back to it? And then what is to keep someone for purchasing said login and password, and then posting it on OWH?



Archie King
USRA Member

RomanK
06-09-2011, 03:30 PM
Archie, Mike does not speak for nor represent Chicks Hobbiz and I suspect that the Pres of the USRA woiuld have some issue with his comments as well.

Be assured that all are welcome at Chicks and it will be a great Nats at a great facility. I look forward to meeting you, see you in August.

tommy_gunn
06-09-2011, 03:38 PM
As well you Roman.

I have watched this board for quite a few years and can't wait to meet a number of people.

In Dallas, just the camaraderie of the fellow enthusiasts was as much fun as the semi pro open crashfest. Most fun I had tearing up $500.00. LOL

Archie

Big Mike1
06-09-2011, 03:46 PM
Archie it was said as a joke i thought you would get a laugh out of it but i guess not. As far as my comments here they are my personal ones not the voice of the usra and as far as how the ppv works i believe it is done through your ip address but Tracy is the one who has been dealing with ustream so he would know better than i would. And roman you are right too I dont represent chicks but chick is the one making the money off the ppv and all I can say is I back him on the idea 100% its his race, his track, and his overhead so if there is anything I can do to help a fellow raceway owner out I will Including getting 12+ racers from michigan there to race. As far as the pres of the usra goes last time i looked he didnt sign my paycheck, and this is still a free country With freedom of speach and what a wonderful thing that is! My comments are just that and if you knew me better you'd know that I do joke around quite a bit and archie seemed to have a joking personality in dallas so i thought it wouldnt offend him so PUBLICLY, SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU ARCHIE. But chick is the one who ok'd tracy to do the ppv event Tracy is investing in the cams and donating his time and money to make this a top notch event and as we all know we pay for TOP NOTCH, just this time its a fellow racer/racewayowner who is making the money(chick)

Zippity
06-09-2011, 04:10 PM
Whether or not I choose to attend a Nationals event (or any other event) is up to ME and NO ONE ELSE and to use the "you were not there" line is both childish and pointless.

I do not have to expalin to you why I have opted to pay for USRA membership.

Don't be so myopic.

Mr.GoFast
06-09-2011, 04:27 PM
You can only do what we will do at this years NATS with Pay Per View.I would love to have it for free but u stream won't let you do all the things for free that can be done .You have seen what you get for free.It is what it is free.2 cams and on and off locking up and you end up with nothing but a bunch of pop ups with no pic ( funny how the pop ups and ads always stay on but no pic) and piss off because you can't see anything.With the PPV we can have as many cams as we want and no POP UPS or ads can handle 20,000 people at once.This is a much better product than ever before but you have to pay for it.You can pick a cam yourself and see what you want to see at anytime. We are going to try and give everybody a look at what we can do in the next few days.This is really going to be better than ever before.I am really doing this because it is really boring to watch 2 cams go off and on.I would have paid just to have watch the lap counter at the Worlds when the cam went off.So just wait and see how it turns out ,look at some of the test that we are going to be running and we will see what everbody thinks then.I want this to be the best Slotcar show that it can be.If anybody has some ideas about cams and what might be good to see. I would like to here from you.We are up to 8 cams now and counting.

Zippity
06-09-2011, 05:50 PM
PPV may be great, but who can understand, let alone follow the blurrs on the screen.

Are you going to be providing a lap by lap verabl commentary of the race? Of course you are not.

quid pro quo :( :( :(

tommy_gunn
06-09-2011, 06:18 PM
We're cool Mike. At first read through, I took it a bit the wrong way. Now I think what is happenning, people are comparing the past webcams. Now if the ppv service is as good as Tracy is saying, this may be a good idea. But it will have to be a HD style cam and not what we have seen in the past.

Waiting to see the test stuff.....

Archie

Mr.GoFast
06-09-2011, 06:43 PM
Zippity,I just check my tech guys list that are going to help me pull this off. And i don't see your name on the list.You don't know what we are going to do or how we are going to do it.

Zippity
06-09-2011, 07:07 PM
Tracy,

Quit talking in riddles :(

As far as PPV is concerned, what will your refund policy be should the service go down?

Big Mike1
06-09-2011, 07:12 PM
Do i need to put you two in a time out like my 6 year old when he backtalks me?

Mr.GoFast
06-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Tracy,

Quit talking in riddles :(

As far as PPV is concerned, what will your refund policy be should the service go down?

U Stream covers all of that.That is there job!!

Zippity
06-09-2011, 07:43 PM
So your refund policy is??????? Zip, Nada, Zero, Non Existant?? which? :( :(

We have a right to know.

Mr.GoFast
06-09-2011, 07:47 PM
For someone that not going to buy it, why do you need to know anything???

Zippity
06-09-2011, 08:01 PM
You are the person who has to sell your case.

I am just asking the questions to make you look good :) :)

Mr.GoFast
06-09-2011, 08:06 PM
I will not answer you anymore Zippity,You will have to pay for me to answer anymore.I don't work for free for you.

Zippity
06-09-2011, 08:35 PM
Pay you to provide me with answers?

If it is anything like your "live" race coverage, I think I will abstain.

Anyway, I'm likely to get a more honest and meanigful reply from one of my cats :) :)

John Davis
06-09-2011, 09:55 PM
Tracy,

Quit talking in riddles :(

As far as PPV is concerned, what will your refund policy be should the service go down?
Ill have to agree with that one, no one is gonna pay to see slot cars

hesketh
06-10-2011, 04:54 AM
Depends on how much it costs. I'm going down to race Tue thru Thu but I will pay to watch Sat. I certainly would have paid to have a dependable feed from Pilsen, that was a helluva race that would have been a lot better if the feed didn't keep collapsing. Everyone always wants everything for free, but that's usually not how it works.

tommy_gunn
06-15-2011, 09:46 AM
I have a question? What does this cost the raceway, if anything, to put up the HD webcam service?

Archie

Mr.GoFast
06-15-2011, 02:47 PM
No cost for the raceway to set up the ppv webcam service

Chasegtp1590
06-15-2011, 02:59 PM
The raceway must have a high speed internet connection available along with the actual webcam. They must also have a computer capable of running the software.

Mr.GoFast
06-15-2011, 03:09 PM
Yes Chase,You are right and we do have everything we need and the software ( From U stream) to get it all up and going.We also have a U stream Rep that is working with us.

86ed once again
06-15-2011, 03:20 PM
I have a ques too lol What is gonna keep people from posting the results on oldweirdherald or facebook? I cant see PK or the owners of facebook keeping people from posting.

BennyJ
06-15-2011, 03:35 PM
I hope this is what people do is post the results on here as soon as they happen. Maybe Shontel will do a OWH coverage. I like to watch the webcam but I will not pay to see it.

Mr.GoFast
06-15-2011, 03:44 PM
I'm not trying to keep someone from posting, I am trying to sell a better product more cams and a better show.So you can watch the whole event and not get cut off right before the main event starts.Show things that's not been seen on the web cams before.We may end up with as many as 10 cams wouldn't that be great to pick what cam you want to watch whenever you want to? Other than just 2 cams cuttting in and out and turning off right before the race starts.

Zippity
06-15-2011, 04:06 PM
Wow!!! :) :) :)

backintheslot
06-15-2011, 04:56 PM
I have to hand it to you Tracy, You put your money where your mouth is. :cool:

I hope the raceway has the band width to deliver a uninterrupted broadcast while racers are using their own P.E.D's.:surprised:

P.S Sounds as if you will have cameras everywhere. No crapper cam please!:lol:

Mr.GoFast
06-15-2011, 05:38 PM
U Stream is telling me once they take off all the ads and pop ups and the stream is wide open to just what we are doing it becomes a uninterrupted broadcast.Thats the reason it has to be ppv because they take off everything but what we are doing.And we have a straght shot back to U stream uninterrupted.The reason the free stuff cuts in and out is because they are over loading the system with ads and pop ups. So they can make all the money they can. They don't care if its cutting in and out because what your are doing is free.

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 06:11 AM
Who is providing the webcams? Is Chick having to purchase them or are they being supplied? And did Chick have the high speed connection or did he have to get that as well?

Archie

Mr.GoFast
06-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Everything has been taken care of,Chick and I and some other people have made sure that we have all the tools that we need.If you would like to help us, I'm sure we could find something for you to do.Maybe you would like to Sponsor a web cam for all the people coming up from Dallas.You could have your on Dallas pit cam!!!

MacMoose
06-16-2011, 12:28 PM
I will not answer you anymore Zippity,You will have to pay for me to answer anymore.I don't work for free for you.

Questions too hard for you?

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 12:34 PM
Everything has been taken care of,Chick and I and some other people have made sure that we have all the tools that we need.If you would like to help us, I'm sure we could find something for you to do.Maybe you would like to Sponsor a web cam for all the people coming up from Dallas.You could have your on Dallas pit cam!!!

What will it cost?

Mr.GoFast
06-16-2011, 01:26 PM
Sorry Archie,We have sold all the sponsor web cams that we had.We might add afew more if we do I will let you know.Thanks

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 01:37 PM
Sorry Archie,We have sold all the sponsor web cams that we had.We might add afew more if we do I will let you know.Thanks

Now i'm confused. Do I need to bring a cam or are you out of slots?

RickT
06-16-2011, 01:50 PM
Tracy,

What happens when the participants refuse to sign a release form giving you permission for them to appear in your PPV ?

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 01:52 PM
Tracy,

What happens when the participants refuse to sign a release form giving you permission for them to appear in your PPV ?

Now your getting deep....

Archie

Mr.GoFast
06-16-2011, 01:54 PM
Rick,I was told if someone don't want to be a participant in the ppv then they should stay at home.

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 01:57 PM
Now i'm confused. Do I need to bring a cam or are you out of slots?



Tracy......did you see this? Need more cams or more space. Because I have a nice webcam for the inter.,.........i mean, you know!

Mr.GoFast
06-16-2011, 02:01 PM
I will have to add more space its something we are looking at.If it works out you will be the 1st one on the list.

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 02:02 PM
I will have to and more space its something we are looking at.If it works out you will be the 1st one on the list.

Got it. Keep me posted because I am interested and can provide the webcam.

Archie

RickT
06-16-2011, 02:04 PM
Well Tracy I am not staying at home and I will not be signing a release..... now what ?

oldweirdherald
06-16-2011, 02:06 PM
I believe that that might actually be covered in the USRA Rules (but not positive). I think there is something to the effect that by becoming a member and entering the race, you agree to obide by the rules as well as to allow publication of your name and photos on any published coverage.

If I'm wrong, then some sort of a waiver needs to be included on the tech sheets.

This is SOP in ANY organized competition - if you want to play - you need to sign some sort of waiver / release.

There is no reason to try to fight or oppose the live webcam coverage. Tracy & Chicks are working hard to provide a high quality webcast coverage of our National Championships, with quality and features that have not been available ever before.

To be able to offer the kind of webcast that provides all this - they are going to do so by using the PPV service available from UStream.

The race results will still get posted online. There is no way and no intend to prevent anyone from posting or reading race results online.

And... there is nobody holding a gun to your head saying you have to pay for the PPV webcam coverage.

We don't need to be looking for loopholes or ways to prevent them from trying to provide this service. :(

They are offering a service that they hope will provide a better Nats online viewing experience. If you want to see this high quality multi-camera live coverage... then you will need to part with some hard earned cash... BUT - it will be considerably less then the cost of being there.

If you want the results for free... then you will just have to wait until they get typed up and posted online... just like always, and just like every year here on OWH since 1998. :)

Mr.GoFast
06-16-2011, 02:14 PM
Rick,.We are trying to make this a better product and you just can't make it better for free. I think once you see what can be done here you might like it.No one will ever know if we don't try it a least once.What will it hurt to try it and see what happens.The only thing I can is if it turns out great alot of people will have to eat crow on here!!

oldweirdherald
06-16-2011, 02:16 PM
Well Tracy I am not staying at home and I will not be signing a release..... now what ?

I'm long winded... so while I typed my reply another 5 or 6 posts got posted.

Rick - read my post above. I don't know why you want to make this into a pissing match. Nobody has ever refused to have their photo or car photo before, or name published in the race results, OR on webcam before. Why should this start now?

This is getting silly. :(

It's a USRA National Championship event - and participants need to agree to the rules and publication of results (including images) in order to participate. If it ain't in the rules now, then it will have to be added to the tech sheets as a waiver/release... in case anyone wants to be silly about it.

Go to ANY event of ANY type. If there is coverage or cameras of any type - there is a little fine print on the ticket... something like "by accepting admission or entry to this event, you are agreeing to abide by all rules as well as agree to publication of your name & likeness..."

something like that....

Otherwise - I guess you'd need to get "pixelated" like on "Cops" (but then that's only for the people who did NOT agree to participate)

You don't have to stay home. But if you want to race - you need to play by the rules. ok?

RickT
06-16-2011, 02:17 PM
Like I said I will not sign any release for PPV, the USRA release is different than a release for PPV and can not be interchanged. Let me know who to take that up with when you find out !! I thought you were in charge of this adventure.

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 02:19 PM
The signing of the tech sheet would cover you for a USRA event and its affiliates. INCLUDING a webcam service, pictures, results and any articles written. As long as the PPV service was inconjuction with the USRA, you would have already waived your rights when you purchased the membership into the usra.

However, if the PPV is a seperate entity not run by the USRA organization then all bets are off. I suspect that Tracy and the USRA are working together to make this happen, or else this could be a disaster.

Couldn't it be done both ways. A high quality multi-webcam ppv service without interruption and a fuzzy, 70's wrong channel skin flick that you have to squint to see for free?

HAHAHAHA

Archie

RickT
06-16-2011, 02:24 PM
"As long as the PPV service was inconjuction with the USRA" Is it ? Is there an agreement between the USRA and PPV ? We will need to hear from Milton.

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 02:27 PM
"As long as the PPV service was inconjuction with the USRA" Is it ? Is there an agreement between the USRA and PPV ? We will need to hear from Milton.

I surely thought you would have liked the 70's parody!!!!!

oldweirdherald
06-16-2011, 02:34 PM
The signing of the tech sheet would cover you for a USRA event and its affiliates. INCLUDING a webcam service, pictures, results and any articles written. As long as the PPV service was inconjuction with the USRA, you would have already waived your rights when you purchased the membership into the usra.

However, if the PPV is a seperate entity not run by the USRA organization then all bets are off. I suspect that Tracy and the USRA are working together to make this happen, or else this could be a disaster.

Couldn't it be done both ways. A high quality multi-webcam ppv service without interruption and a fuzzy, 70's wrong channel skin flick that you have to squint to see for free?

HAHAHAHA

Archie

There you have it - from the famous attorney "Tommy Gunn" :lol: (reference to another thread...)

Yes - I'm sure that Tracy & Chick have every intention of working WITH the USRA to provide coverage of this event - just as I have, John Ford has, and Paul M at SCB did for years. The only gripe I every heard about publishing someone's name or face was years ago 2 young racers "Tomato" and "RC" didn't want to use their real names... so I didn't.

Grown ups playing with toy cars! For National Championships of toy car racing... but it's still a hobby and/or a sport... and it's still supposed to be FUN.

I'm sure this will all work out just fine... have a cup of decaf!

RickT
06-16-2011, 02:37 PM
Archie,

Is that disco I hear blasting from your Ipod ? Check your e-mail later today !!

LOL

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 02:40 PM
Archie,

Is that disco I hear blasting from your Ipod ? Check your e-mail later today !!

LOL

I do love me some Rick James.....then Metallica......then Kenny Chesney.

I'm diverse...

LOL

Archie

Zippity
06-16-2011, 03:55 PM
Tracy - all this sounds good :)

Will you also be providing a "live" on a car race cam?

Hell, I would even pay to watch that :D :D

Big Mike1
06-16-2011, 04:30 PM
Zippity, if someone puts a camera on their car it will not pass tech although it would be cool the chance that it could fall off and possibly ruin anothers race would not be a good thing so as the tech director thats one cam that wont be allowed all others will be worth the price to see the races!

Zippity
06-16-2011, 04:41 PM
Bugger!!! I hadn't thought of that :( :(

Velcro or tape would hold the camera in place ;)

A fallen camera could become "Pit Cam" :D



Of course all this relates to that other informative thread http://www.slotcartalk.com/slotcartalk/showthread.php?31616-Micro-digital-camera (I'm awaiting the delivery of my new camera :) )

John Davis
06-16-2011, 06:21 PM
Like I said I will not sign any release for PPV, the USRA release is different than a release for PPV and can not be interchanged. Let me know who to take that up with when you find out !! I thought you were in charge of this adventure.

will there be sound with this pay per view??? so this will be like cable TV, cant wait since its pay per view it doesnt matter what we do or say then, gotta love it

Big Mike1
06-16-2011, 06:30 PM
John I'm pretty sure it will be uncensored its kind of hard to sensor live coverage not like cable that 2 hours of editing and its called live this should be listed as close to real time as possible. I'm almost wondering if it should have some sort of parental advisory as there more than likely will be some profanity. lol

tommy_gunn
06-16-2011, 06:57 PM
Hadn't thought of that. Someone remind chase that we are live. Lol

RomanK
06-17-2011, 09:08 AM
Rick,I was told if someone don't want to be a participant in the ppv then they should stay at home.


Who in the world would ever say such a thing?

BennyJ
06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
Yea that's the ticket. Everybody stay home to watch nobody racing on PPV......................Not to good advice.

Les
06-17-2011, 02:31 PM
On a lighter note:
Benny,
Is it getting too hot on the porch? Or did you have to come in to get more ice for the cooler?
I bet that rocker is about worn out by now. :-)

BennyJ
06-17-2011, 05:59 PM
It was hot today..especially on the golfcourse. The rocker is still good but I have wore out 3 sets of golf clubs the last few years!! Anyway when did you become part of Team Gofast? Can't help but remember way back , when Tracy threw your open car up against the wall, behind the drivers panel during a Southern USRA open race...Them was some good fun times.

R.O.T.
06-17-2011, 09:12 PM
This is gone way out of control, some people love controversy; I can't stand it !!!!!!!! So I've pulled the plug on the PPV as well as disconnecting my internet. There will be no Web cams Period. Look foward to seeing everyone there!!!!!

John Davis
06-17-2011, 10:06 PM
This is gone way out of control, some people love controversy; I can't stand it !!!!!!!! So I've pulled the plug on the PPV as well as disconnecting my internet. There will be no Web cams Period. Look foward to seeing everyone there!!!!!

Did you check with Tracey on that? well thats the last straw, what happened to the J.D. cam and after I bought all those cool pops to the race way, Geeeeez whats next

Mr.GoFast
06-17-2011, 10:58 PM
I was just trying to help Chick out.This was something we thought ( Chick and I and alot of other people) was abetter product than ever before.Some poeople just don't like change no matter what.Now you see what you are going to get nothing.So I guess it is what it is nothing and after its all said and done the sport of slotcar racing will never know what could have been. Because some of the people's Ego's are way to big and can't unstand change.This could have been a great thing but we are the only ones that really know it .Because we have been testing it and know what could really have happen with the ppv( 10 Web cams) I wish I could have been able to show you what you are really not going to be able to see now .This was going to be the best SlotCar show ever.Sorry everybody is not going to be able to see what we could do.There is always afew people that can't unstand what's going on unless it's there idea and this was not there idea and now you see what happens nothing!!!

Zippity
06-17-2011, 11:21 PM
Blame the disbelievers. I'd prefer to think that we are the 'realists' here.

Your decision, for whatever reason, is a cop out :(

slotcarsten
06-18-2011, 12:56 AM
Don't let the nay-sayers of the world stop you...
There are pleanty of people that will tell you the world is flat/The moon landing newer happened/George Bush was the greatest president ever !
Don't let that get in the way of progress. If you beleive that you can bring the world forward in any respect, no matter how small, GO FOR IT!
Every advance ever taken has been accompanied by the head-shaking and disbeleive of the peers of the time.

I would pay, not to see the race, but to see and learn what it is that you can bring to the party.
I did consider breaking out a technical thread from this long-since lost thread/poll, to discouss the technical aspects.
For one I am suppriced that UStream should claim the instability is due to the adverts being added. I also want to know if you intended to stream 10 cameraes at once (multiview) or if you where going to have a producer on the show. A dedicated producer/commentator really would be a fenomenal advance. I also would like to learn what internet (upload) speed you had planed to support this broadcast.

On the other hand, you where quick, right after the Dallas show, to claim that no web-cam or LiveTiming would ever be provided from this years race, which for one thing, precluded me from approaching you for any coordination or possible sponsor-ship of LiveTiming using LapMaster.

I gues my message is, make it happend !

Scale Series
06-18-2011, 05:56 AM
No need for my comment after Milton's statement

JimHT
06-18-2011, 03:27 PM
The issue with the USRA is PPV, money and control of the image.
Fine.

Back to the free service sponsored by the Raceway and the manufacturer...
just like anything else that's sponsored at the race, prizes, trophies, food, whatever.

Nothing wrong with the whole idea as a promotion, it's just advertising for slot cars, if done properly.
Why not still go for it?

Les
06-18-2011, 03:52 PM
Does anyone remember traveling light productions? A film crew spend over a week filming the race, the pits, and interviewing racers.
With only the intentions of selling the DVD.
Did anyone sign anything about a release of their image being printed.
I do not know, but I do not think that the USRA or BP raceway got penny. Just some really great PR!
And a lot of the ones that were there bought the DVD!!

R.O.T.
06-20-2011, 05:40 PM
Well Tracy I am not staying at home and I will not be signing a release..... now what ?

for protecting the best interest in Chick's Hobbiz Inc. I have spoken to my attorneys as well and release forms are actually need for any form of video or still pictures. Therefore I ( representative of Chick's Hobbiz Inc.) will not allow cameras, video cameras or cell phone with cameras in the facitilty either. If you bring them in you will be ask to remove yourself and belongings from the facitlity. The USRA board is welcome to come up with there own release form or forms holding Chick's Hobbiz Inc. not liabiable for any republication of still pictures or videos produced inside Chick's Hobbiz Inc. facility. Thank you again Rick T.

tommy_gunn
06-20-2011, 05:59 PM
Good luck with that.

Mom, time to lock it up. It has run its course.

Archie

BennyJ
06-20-2011, 06:48 PM
No cell phone cameras? All phones have cameras now. Come on. That's gonna fly like a lead balloon.

RickT
06-20-2011, 07:29 PM
Chick,

First of all i still stand by my statement, i will not sign a release for PPV. The reason is simple, it don't believe its in the best interest of the hobby to charge for a PPV. You tell me how the hobby will get more exposure, from PPV with very few people watching or free web broadcast ? That is a simple, FREE, I will be at the Nats so it has nothing to do with if i will pay for it or not. Look at the Poll up there... 83% will not pay and 16% will pay! It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

I will be more that happy to sign any release in a non PPV event.

So you tell me Chick, is your goal to promote slot car racing buy giving it more exposure or sip Tracy's Kool-Aid which has you acting in a very unprofessional manner. I consider us friends and when we talked on the phone several weeks ago about the release before I ever mentioned anything on the board about a release. You told me then you didn't care about the PPV you were leaving that up the Tracy.

Now why is the sky falling and the world is ending because the USRA ban the PPV ? As Ron pointed out you pulled the plug 12 hours before a post was made by the USRA.

Have you been convinced that you will make 3000.00 to 6000.00 with PPV ? Considering the poll results speak otherwise.

You want to ban cell phone from the raceway ? Really now !! have you thought about what you are saying ? You have business people attending your Nats and they then to be available for calls... but more important, what about the people attending your Nats who need to be in contact with their family who is at home while they are attending the Nats ? Would you go to a Nats leave your phone in a car that reaches extremely high heat in the summer and be out of contact with your family ?

You want to talk about this, give me a call you have my phone number.

mazur50
06-20-2011, 07:30 PM
You guys are all a bunch of babies.

Chick all you need is a sign that says that you are under video and audio surveillance and post it on the door for everyone to see and by entering they are agreeing to be video taped.

Solution to the problem.

But the problem is that everyone in slotcar racing wants everything for free.

A very nice video feed can be done at very little cost.

I would of loved o see how you pull of 10 HD camera's over a 20Mbs internet connection. How many computers where you going to use and where you going to have 10 different feed. The video would be all out of sync. And being out of sync has noting to do with the adds. It is all how each computer and the computer doing the encoding is filling the video buffer. It is almost impossible to have two video feeds in sync.

The only way to pull off different video angles is to have a video switch or video switching software just like I had at the 2011 Scale Nats/

The problem with our coverage was I was not able to man the system all day as I was trying to race.

This is a job that needs to be done by someone all day long

Also you need to have a very powerful computer to encode all of that HD video to H.264 compression. I have a very high end laptop and once you get all of the video overlays and split screen it would peg out the processor on that machine.

I think before you should o even brought up the idea of PPV you should of given the people a tast of what they would be paying for because I know I would never pay to see half of the video feed the slot car tracks have running.

The problem is most of the people out there dont know what is cost to put on a good webcast. I do because i have done it all out of my own pocket and I do it because it is fun to give the people at home a little tast of a big race so they can see what they are missing.

If you are truly going to put on a first class professional show. Then you should show the slotcar world what you want to do. Then maybe the usra will let you do the filming. The problem is this is a fist time any of the board member ever gave a crap and wanted to fix stuff.

Maybe you should offer some of what you collect to the Usra to help them keep the great organization running for all these years.

The problem the USRA sees with this is that you want to change.

So the Usra needs to grow up a little and work with the members and Chick and Mr. Gofast you need to work with the USRA in private and not get on a public forum and act like ou play in a sandbox.

Crap like this is what makes people not want to slotcar race. I am sure new people buy starter sets find this website and see all the bitching and say F this.

O ya Chick if your going to not allow Camera phones with camers you should also not allow GUNS

We dont need Big Mike aka "Chewbacca" dropping his gun on the floor while he does his bid for cali dance.

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/7/72/Chewie19BBY-CVD.jpg

Big Mike1
06-20-2011, 07:45 PM
You guys are all a bunch of babies.

Chick all you need is a sign that says that you are under video and audio surveillance and post it on the door for everyone to see and by entering they are agreeing to be video taped.

Solution to the problem.



A very nice video feed can be done at very little cost.

I would of loved o see how you pull of 10 HD camera's over a 20Mbs internet connection. How many computers where you going to use and where you going to have 10 different feed. The video would be all out of sync. And being out of sync has noting to do with the adds. It is all how each computer and the computer doing the encoding is filling the video buffer. It is almost impossible to have two video feeds in sync.

The only way to pull off different video angles is to have a video switch or video switching software just like I had at the 2011 Scale Nats/

The problem with our coverage was I was not able to man the system all day as I was trying to race.

This is a job that needs to be done by someone all day long

Also you need to have a very powerful computer to encode all of that HD video to H.264 compression. I have a very high end laptop and once you get all of the video overlays and split screen it would peg out the processor on that machine.

I think before you should o even brought up the idea of PPV you should of given the people a tast of what they would be paying for because I know I would never pay to see half of the video feed the slot car tracks have running.

The problem is most of the people out there dont know what is cost to put on a good webcast. I do because i have done it all out of my own pocket and I do it because it is fun to give the people at home a little tast of a big race so they can see what they are missing.

If you are truly going to put on a first class professional show. Then you should show the slotcar world what you want to do. Then maybe the usra will let you do the filming. The problem is this is a fist time any of the board member ever gave a crap and wanted to fix stuff.

Maybe you should offer some of what you collect to the Usra to help them keep the great organization running for all these years.

The problem the USRA sees with this is that you want to change.

So the Usra needs to grow up a little and work with the members and Chick and Mr. Gofast you need to work with the USRA in private and not get on a public forum and act like ou play in a sandbox.

Crap like this is what makes people not want to slotcar race. I am sure new people buy starter sets find this website and see all the bitching and say F this.

O ya Chick if your going to not allow Camera phones with camers you should also not allow GUNS

We dont need Big Mike aka "Chewbacca" dropping his gun on the floor while he does his bid for cali dance.

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/7/72/Chewie19BBY-CVD.jpg

Mazur, why are you bringing me into this its none of your business! your not a usra official nor did you run for any office and when was the last time you raced in a div.1 race never? as far as the usra goes ive been racing since i was 10 at my first nats so i think what your saying is your scared if someone carrys a gun maybe you should go to congress and tell them that they need to amend the second ammendment. now I know you like to refer to me as chewbacca but the picture just aint right I dont play with toy guns mine are real now dont you need to add another bag of sugar into willy wonka's chocolate river or roll the purple girl to the juicer room for the other ompa lompas to dejuice her

Zippity
06-20-2011, 07:50 PM
for protecting the best interest in Chick's Hobbiz Inc. I have spoken to my attorneys as well and release forms are actually need for any form of video or still pictures. Therefore I ( representative of Chick's Hobbiz Inc.) will not allow cameras, video cameras or cell phone with cameras in the facitilty either. If you bring them in you will be ask to remove yourself and belongings from the facitlity. The USRA board is welcome to come up with there own release form or forms holding Chick's Hobbiz Inc. not liabiable for any republication of still pictures or videos produced inside Chick's Hobbiz Inc. facility. Thank you again Rick T.


Is this a serious post?

Please tell me that you are joking.

pilmat
06-20-2011, 08:16 PM
Is this a serious post?

Please tell me that you are joking.

Zip, I've only read the top three or four posts... I'm hoping this whole THREAD is a joke! I think we all need a big ole dose of perspective here, and in a PUBLIC forum (hint-hint).

mazur50
06-20-2011, 08:46 PM
And ban Flexi Cars LMAO

I agree they should be banned and a minimum time should be placed in all classes so a car can be black flagged.

But it is in the rules.

mazur50
06-20-2011, 09:22 PM
Mazur, why are you bringing me into this its none of your business! your not a usra official nor did you run for any office and when was the last time you raced in a div.1 race never? as far as the usra goes ive been racing since i was 10 at my first nats so i think what your saying is your scared if someone carrys a gun maybe you should go to congress and tell them that they need to amend the second ammendment. now I know you like to refer to me as chewbacca but the picture just aint right I dont play with toy guns mine are real now dont you need to add another bag of sugar into willy wonka's chocolate river or roll the purple girl to the juicer room for the other ompa lompas to dejuice her

Mike how did you know I die my hair orange and hang with charlie on weekend.

Mike I have been racing slotcars off and on since 1993 when slotcars still had pink tires.

It is part of my business as a USRA member. I remember you voting at the Div 2 Nats when you dont race along with your wife and your kid and the kids race dont count it not a USRA class.

I have not run for office because for the most part I think that you are all doing a good job. Also at the moment i cant put 100% so I will not run for office if I cant put 100%.

Just because you are a Div1 racer and tech director you act like you are on this high horse.

I also didn't attend a big Race aka Nats till 2003 becasue there where no Wing Nats in the Midwest that i could get to.

From 1993 to about 1997 all I did was race box stock and outlaw12 you can ask Dave Fiedler becasue it was all at his shop.

I didn't race scale until 2000-2003 till came back.

So dont ask like you are Mr. Slotcar just because ou started racing at the nat when you where 10.

I see the USRA going down the toilet and i am trying to stuff the toilet before it goes in the sewer.

I post because I care.

Also chewbacca's gun is a special space gun and I want to see you tell him its not real.

I just think chick needs to work with Milton and the board to make his nats the best ever, and next year who ever gets it needs to do the same.

oldweirdherald
06-20-2011, 10:53 PM
So the Usra needs to grow up a little and work with the members and Chick and Mr. Gofast you need to work with the USRA in private and not get on a public forum and act like ou play in a sandbox.

Crap like this is what makes people not want to slotcar race. I am sure new people buy starter sets find this website and see all the bitching and say F this.

This would have a been a good point to end this silliness.

But excuse me for going to sleep... at around 8am finally, then as soon as I sleep this thread goes nuts once again.

And then I wake up to all this... stuff... :rolleyes:


Also chewbacca's gun is a special space gun and I want to see you tell him its not real.

Time to put on my "mom" apron and close this thread, since all the big kids can't seem to get along in the sandbox. :(

But I guess this one could serve as a good note to end on...


I just think chick needs to work with Milton and the board to make his nats the best ever, and next year who ever gets it needs to do the same.

OK gang... chill out, have a cup of decaf... and try to think of something nice about why we race slot cars for a bit.

Then give the politics a rest and try to post something actually about slot cars for a change of pace, okie dokie?

Thread closed.

"Mom"