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Thread: The "Gittin Thingie" by Don

  1. #31
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    No

    Terry
    I was joking!!!!!!!
    Off course I don't have a copyright for that kind of lightning!
    Nor I would ask for compensation for that little "how to" I gave you!
    I am a Thingie addict and I really would like to find a Shinoda body (yes it's that Larry Shinoda, who designed great looking slot car bodies which are very difficult to find nowadays).
    Here is one:



    If you know anybody that has one for sale or could actually make a mold of it and repop a copy I would be the first one to buy it!
    Best regards
    Edo
    Photo courtesy: Don "dgersh"Siegel

  2. #32
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    Edo, i once was a thingie lover too. Not to say that i am not now, i have begun to enjoy hard body scale rtr racers from the golden era (1965-66 era Monograms, Cox,etc) as well as fully detailed butyrate/lexan,etc scale racers and hot rods too. Your gift is wonderful, i wish i had someone out there in vintage slot car land that would send me such great presents! Kudos to the builder too, great job!!

    PDL, you took the words right out of my mouth, you are reading my mind too! I have noticed the 1/24 real scale racing in Japan and Europe, and i am jealous, i wish that was the commercial racing scene here in the US, as i would gladly join in. And you are also right: today's 1/32 rtr scale cars are what the hobby should have been in the mid 1960's. It got close then, but the scale hard body cars lost out to faster motors, lighter chassis and bodies, meant for pure racing, thingies included. Kids liked the thingies, heck, they are cool looking race car toys, and kids (boys) like their toys. So, kids tried their best to blend into the new fad of commercial slot car racing, but it proved to not be a welcome place for boys to play with their thingie toys. the racers pushed them out, the kids could no longer be competitive, the makers lost money and pulled out, and we were/are left with what the state of commercial racing is today,sadly.

    and also, as you stated, 1/32 scale cars are too small and do not perform well on a super large 1/24 commercial track. 1/32 scale race cars perform best on today's plastic tracks, and/or a smaller routed track, meant for no glue or other sprayed on gunk, just rubber and the track surface.

    So, if you listen to PDL's point, and my own (see track owners are) about adding 1/32 plastic tracks into commercial raceways, you will see that slot car racing, in 1/32 and 1/24 scale, can come back to it's roots, and grow into today's modern techno world just enough to be what some envisioned it to be in the late 1950s-early 1960s. Today, some contemporary envisionaries from Spain mostly, have brought 1/32 scale racing to the height of its very being: near exact scale cars, good performance, great detailing.

    Yes, i too enjoy the "crude"-ness of the 1960s 1/32 and 1/24 scale cars, and enjoy them for what they were/are: the beginning of our hobby. and, those 1960s car should not be forgotten and written off, but brought back to life. And not just as showcase or mib high$$ collectible, but some should be raced again. Raced again, and enjoyed.

    And now, companies like Carrera and Auto Art are producing 1/24 scale rtr cars again,like it was in 1965 era. I believe that scale 1/24 rtr cars will slowly, but surely make there way into the home/club, and then the commercial tracks arenas and be popular once again. there were in the 1960s, and now today, 2 different types of 1/32-1/24 racers: the commercial track serious guys with lightning fast cars, and the hard body scale home/club guys who race slower, but more real to life scale cars. There is some cross-over in both arenas too.

    What is happening today is the resurrgence of the home/club 1/32 racers. I truly hope that 1/24 scale racing, slowed down to a speed that is more realistic too, continues to grow here in the US.

    PDL< looking forward to a new book too!! Keep us updated please!!

  3. #33
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    Jun 2002
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    Salt Lake City
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    822

    Thingies and Shadow

    Hi

    Where I was racing, the AVS was a BIG deal. The first I saw one, was the cover shot on a magazine (wasit Road and Track) with side view and interior bits. One of the local pros had brought the magazine to the track for the Saturday night "big money" race there. And we spent time on the bench trying to figure out if it were scaled to 1/24 if it would be legal with the rules.

    but some of our tracks were using 3/4fronts, 7/8ths rear in the winter of 66/early 67 season. And the 8 local centers had decided to run common rules, that ment "lowest common".

    Fate

  4. #34
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    I know you were kidding, but...

    Edo

    I know you were joking, but I'm only half kidding. It's great to have this many racers looking out for each other's interests and all helping each other so freely. I really enjoy the spirit of giving which is so prevalent here.

    It might be fun to create a "Thingie" some day just for giggles. Nothing soon, but it's worrh thinking about stepping over to the "Dark Side". It wouldn't take much research.

    To return to my earlier statement about thingies in 12" = 1' racing, has anyone taken a close look at a NAsCAR "Dodge" and then walked down to the local Dodge dealership? Not you, Edo, it might be a looooong walk. NAsCAR race cars (You certainly can't call them "stock" cars) are thinigies if ever there was such a beast. Anyone looked at a Trans Am car lately...thingies!

    Thingies are a natrual part of racing. We try to draw clean lines of demarcation between the two types. It will always be muddy ground in between. There's no real right or wrong to my way of thinking, only personal choices and preferences. I like thingies, because they give me a chance to tell my buddies who race thingies that they are idiots and not really risk getting punched in the face. They laugh at me then blow me away on the track.

    Terry

  5. #35
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    AVSs and ASPs

    Fate,

    The AVS had 12" wheels if memory serves me correctly. This scales out to 1/2" in 1/24. Basically this amounted to putting 1/32 wheels on a 1/24 car, a common practice at the time. How many people remember the 1/32 F-1 body which came with the Classic Asp? It could be used as a 1/32 or a 1/24 car.

    Was there ever a 1/24 AVS Shadow made? Body? Kit?

    Terry

  6. #36
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    Jun 2004
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    AVS?

    Hi guys
    what's an AVS?
    Here in Switzerland it stands for the pension you get when you are old, very old like 64, and you stop working.
    Hey I have an ASP! Two actually: a green one and the Competition gold one!
    Loove them! Best looking slot car ever made with the Shinoda above!
    Loove the dark side!
    But I not going further beyond than this Italian 1969 Mini Can Am:



    BTW This Pactra Astronaut is not bad either:



    And this 1/32 SCX Seat Cupra is almost a real Thingie:



    Rhino, as you rightly say "There's no real right or wrong to my way of thinking, only personal choices and preferences"
    Best regards
    edo

  7. #37
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    Real thingies can be found in Area 51

    Some browsing turned up this data from Russell Sheldon and a copy of the R&T photo of the AVS Shadow:

    1970 AVS Shadow

    Overall length 155
    Width 68
    Wheelbase 86
    Highest point of bodywork was 23.5 above the ground.
    Front tyres were 17 in diameter and 11 wide
    Rear tyres were 19 in diameter and 17 wide



    Scaled to 1/24 this becomes:

    Overall length 6.46
    Width 2.80
    Wheelbase 3.58
    Highest point of bodywork was .979 above the ground.
    Front tyres .700" x .458"
    Rear tyres .790 x .700"
    No info given on guide lead

    So, if any of you want the best of both the scale and the thingie worlds rolled into one, there you have it.

    I was surprised to see that it would actually make a pretty small car. Notice that the widest body part is NOT where the rear tiers are, it's the ducts (radiator inlets??). It would be fairly close in size to a 1/32 Ferrari 612P, bigger , but close.

    Does anyone have a copy of the old R&T article?

    Terry

  8. #38
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    Ask and you shall receive.

    Edo,

    You must have posted your request as I was posting mine. Isn't Don Nichols' flying AVS doorstop incredible? If I can get my printer to work, (Buy a new one tight wad!), I'll have to print out the above drawings and scale it to 1/'24 and 1/32. Imagine the beastie in 1/32... a rolling credit card.

    Terry
    Last edited by Rhino; 04-02-2005 at 01:24 PM.

  9. #39
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    Jun 2002
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    3,537

    Smile Pipe dream...

    Of course, the AVS (Advanced Vehicles Systems) Shadow was never built as illustrated. If indeed it is Don Nichols looking down to the "car", the car itself is just an... illustration by an artist.

    Lancer made the body as you see it but about twice as large in scale as what the real car ended to be.

    A very courageous Vic Elford drove the resulting go-kart on steroids, a 1/32 scale car in the middle of 1/24 racers. It lost.
    The car's remains now rest peacefully in a warehouse in Salinas, California. Of all the cars recently sold by Nichols to vintage racers, no one wanted that one so far.
    Rich enthusiasts also like to keep their underwear dry.

  10. #40
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    Dry underwear is overrated

    Dokk

    So the car in the photo with the Vincent Price look-alike staring down is just a very well done illustration?? Fooled me. Or is it one of those Detroit Auto Show type mock ups?

    In '70, a tiny tired version was driven by Follmer, but the car had lost the rear vents/ducts, and had open rear wheel wells by then. Not sure if he drove before of after Elford. It looks like Elford drove the second small tired version.

    There were enough engine related accessories above the body work by then to negate any aerodynamic advantage gained with the low profile. The car had large wings on struts or on tail fins depending on which versoins you see. Apparantly the tiny Shadows ran only three races.

    As far as racing a 1/32 car against 1/24 goes, it is one of life's great pleasures. You'll have to help me with the year, but when the Classic Asp was released, a buddy of mine converted it to 1/32. Wasn't an F-1 body included with some Asp kits? My fuzzy memory is at work again. Anyhow, he entered his and I entered one of my 1/32 cars. He finished first and I finished fourth. Most of the other racers were local adults who had no use for smart a--ed hippie kids.

    Now I have to find a suitable way to sneak a 1/32 car into one of the local Flexi races. Let's see, rules say any stamped production chassis...

    Rhino

  11. #41
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    Do you mean this car??


  12. #42
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    Yep, yep!

    Zippity

    That's indeed the one. There is a big difference between this and the R&T picture. Glad you had one handy. Looks like you have the Lyons book too. Great reading.

    Terry

  13. #43
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    And the Arco Tech Check Says>

    ILLEGAL!

    Grin.

    .750 x .25 fronts, .875x.675 rears.

    3.25 wide.

    So, the car is too small and the tires too wide and too small.

    So THERE.

    BANNED.

    Fate

    Anyway, when we saw the illo above, some of us were actually complaining about the the slot cars we were racing. This lead to us starting up a 1/32 club. There were 1/32 home groups and clubs, but they all insisted on running something easy, like stock strombecker cars or whatever. We were pro racers who actually liked cars and scale cars; I pointed out that no one made non scale bits in 1/32. So, we started a 1/32 SCALE scratchbuilders club. No rules except the cars were scale. Raced that way all through the dark ages and up until 6 years ago, when THE OTHERS complained about "growing the hobby" by switching to plastic RTRs.

    Fate

  14. #44
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    Re: Dry underwear is overrated

    Originally posted by Rhino
    Dokk



    As far as racing a 1/32 car against 1/24 goes, it is one of life's great pleasures. You'll have to help me with the year, but when the Classic Asp was released, a buddy of mine converted it to 1/32. Wasn't an F-1 body included with some Asp kits? My fuzzy memory is at work again. Anyhow, he entered his and I entered one of my 1/32 cars. He finished first and I finished fourth. Most of the other racers were local adults who had no use for smart a--ed hippie kids.


    Rhino
    The AVS Shadow was a 8.4litre Gokart. Did not some drunk steal the Shadow and crash it? I know one of the prototype AVS shadows was at Goodwood Festival of Speed last year. This car looking closer to the Illustration one that was mentioned in this thread.
    As far as spare bodies with the Classic range of cars is concerned the one with the Manta Ray was a 1/24th Lotus 30. So if your saying the other one was with the Asp. I have this F1 body which is a Maserati 250F in what looks to be 1/32! I have the chassic kit with hardware but no wheels or tires. Does this mean that by using the Asp small fronts and huge backs this Maserati becomes a thingie?
    Regards Allan

  15. #45
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    Or is it one of those Detroit Auto Show type mock ups?
    No Terry, look closely, it is indeed just a B&W illustration. The car eventually built had little resemblance to this drawing, including that the drawing with the picture of Nichols superimposed, makes it appear like a "normal" sized car. This was never built as you see it and was strictly a concept by the engineer,
    Zip posted the pic of the actual abomination of a car actually built, one that made absolutely no sense at all both aerodynamically and for chassis ergonomics. There was little weight savings if any, the brakes could not stop the car and the tiny tires offered no traction. The only thing that the car COULD have done is go faster in top speed, but it did not even do this due to the extra drag caused by the humongus wing-cum water radiators.

    A typical disaster. And, as for the infamous Cheetah, some people appear to LOVE disasters... go figure. May be they are content into contemplating their dissecating F250's on jacks sitting on their front lawns and figure that the Cheetahs are really cool, who knows...

    Apparently, my good friend Peter Kaus, owner of the Rosso Bianco Museum, BOUGHT the remains of the AVS Shadow and had someone rebuild the thing in its original concept configuration:



    This is of course a far-fetched "restoration" since these body panels were never built by the Don Nichols team.
    Makes a nice curio piece for awed german visitors...

    Dokk

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