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Thread: Falcon 5 motor status?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Plainfield, Southwest Suburb of Chicago
    Posts
    74
    I am not so sure inexpensive motors are stupid. Sealed ones obviously are.

    I thank God that there is more to slot car racing then just pulling a trigger and driving a toy car around a track. That is only "part" of why I got in this. But one of the other "parts" is that it provides a release for my ability, good or bad, to work on the power plant to see if I can have an influence on its performance. Research and Development. And do you really believe that building/rebuilding a D or C can is rocket science? Because JimHT, I hate to bring you the good news, but it is just not that big a deal. The hardest part is summining up the mental energy and determination to decide to do it and carring through with that conviction. Just not a big deal.

    Slot cars are toys, receways sell toys and racers race toys, but they are "suffisticated" toys. If they were just toys, as you point out, then all the toy products sold at the raceways would be sold at Toy's R Us. I beleive the slot cars we race to be a little more then toys.

    Toys "do " work great with cheap sealed motors and thats exactly were the Falcon motor belongs, in all the $300,000,000 mass produced slot car toys.

    Your "theory" of these motors not negating a racers ability is sound. However, the "Reality" is the raceway owners in my area have eliminated most of the USRA classes, and that will negate my ability to practice and race c cans to stay in racing shape.

    And if we racers are so irrelevent and insugnificant, then why did you bother answering my post?

    However, I do recognize your right to voice your beliefs , and I look forward to the challenge of more.

    This is what I love about this site, everyone gets to speak with in the contects of the rules any opinion they want. I love it.
    Racing for the Racers, by the Racers!!!
    USRA Member #806

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    The Alamo City
    Posts
    505

    Thumbs up THIS IS AS MUCH FUN AS RACING

    JimHT said:
    Yeah, cheap sealed motors are stupid.
    & for the cluelessly inclined, I was making a joke.

    sirslotalot1 said:
    Sealed ones obviously are.
    & I think he's serious. Unfortunately...

    The rest of what he thinks is reality seems equally irrelevant but this statement makes me hopeful that he won't be around much longer anyway:
    However, the "Reality" is the raceway owners in my area have eliminated most of the USRA classes, and that will negate my ability to practice and race c cans to stay in racing shape.
    I look forward to more discourse that reminds me of John Cauthen, in a gentle way, of course, because I've been accused of being somewhat "sarcaustic" & as a senior citizen I'm supposed to be more understanding with youngsters, especially youngsters that think rebuildable motors aren't rocket science. One fast rebuilt motor can be luck, a couple of dozen fast rebuilt motors is rocket science & always has been.
    But what do I know...

    By the way...
    And if we racers are so irrelevent and insugnificant, then why did you bother answering my post?
    Don't take it personally, I've been accused of being preachy, you got in the way.
    "I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." -- Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    307
    I think that competition without sportsmanship is prehistoric. Everybody knows that you can take hand grenades fishing, and you'll have all the fish you want in seconds. Why don't we use them, sortsmanship. Why have any rules at all? Why not just say run what ya brung at all races? Sortsmanship is what seperates people that are able to accept something other than first place, from those who cannot. I enjoy falcon classes for a variety of reasons, and the only reason I would buy more than one, would be if I needed another motor for another car. Why don't I buy more? Sportsmanship. I've gotten a good one here and there, and it didn't make that big a difference. I enjoy the atmosphere, and the cast of characters at the track. I'm guessing you are a wing car guy.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    The Alamo City
    Posts
    505

    HUH?

    smoke said:
    I'm guessing you are a wing car guy.
    Who are you talking to? Please clarify so the proper party can be offended or proud, whatever...
    "I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." -- Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    307
    The falcon hater, not you. I hope you can figure it out.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    St Charles, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    2,319

    Toy car versus slotcars

    Toy cars can be made INTO slotcars. That is where the SPORT started. The homeset marketers but out such ill driving cars in the 1960's that we had to make them work better. The Modern homeset market has only added magnets to most of their designs.

    We race 1/32 homeset cars one night a week -with a workable set of rules that allows for TUNING of ALL brands on regular copper and wood.

    Always allowed modifications: You may add ballast to the car. You can change the flag and pickups/leadwires. You can replace the axles, wheels, tires, and gears, and bushings.

    STAGE 1: Standard NC-1, Scalextric,Monogram motors that are rated at less than 20,000 RPM. Vintage Sports (pre 1975); Modern sports(post 1975); Trans/Am; Stockcar,(modern and carrera); F-1.

    Stage 2: any motor rated 20 - 29,000 RPM. Sportscars modern; Tran/Am

    Stage 3: any motor rated 30,000 or more (including falcons/TSRF)
    Modern (post 1975 Sports cars), TSRF SEDAN

    Stage 4: Womp/Thumper: 16d or Falcon powered with sedan vac-formed bodies.

    Stage 5: Parma Intl 32 (1/32 F-production) LMP bodies with Falcons.

    On a 150 ft track, the stage 1 cars can do about 10 second laps. Stage 5 can get down to the seven second range.

    1/24 stamped steel LMP cars are in the low six second range with falcon power and the five second range with a super-wasp.
    l.d. kelley, M.A. Ramcatlarry@aol.com

    60 year pin 1959-2019
    Racing slot cars in America
    USRA 2019 member
    IRRA, ISRA/USA, Hardbodies 1/24 &
    1/32 - Great Lakes Slot Car Club
    retired raceway owner 1992-2007
    Omni/Cidex service center

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,597

    What I want to know is

    If the falcon motor car classes suck so bad , Why are so many racing them? The oval guys in our area did it last year, Now they are racing 3 times the entries. Some roadcourse guys started racing them tonight here at keystone, 1/32 production. 2 of which are concidered high end scale racers. At the end of the race All were laughing and talking about how much fun they had!.
    And that's what slotcars are all about.

    Commercial raceways are only for the serious racer.LOL what a joke that is!!!!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    73

    Falcon raison d'etre

    Sitting here in Guangzhou on a Saturday night with some time to burn, so I thought I might add my two cents to the discussion.

    Since I am the guy that created the Falcon, I can tell you why I did it and what I hoped to accomplish. I will let others decide if I accomplished my goal.

    First a confession. I am a recovering Speed Crazed Moron. A SCM is characterized as a slot racer who is willing to spend ridiculously large amounts of time and money for the fastest motors, best chassis, $1000's in motor building tools, magnet zappers etc. in order to win. Anything to go .1 second/lap faster. New faster arms and higher down force bodies come out.....just change the rules in mid season to allow them. Buy ten of everything to get the fastest. Shoot angry looks at newbies that take you out.

    I first realized I was a SCM as I stood there watching the owner lock the door of my local raceway for the last time. Winning is great but what if there is no one around to beat? How fun is it to race without turn marshalls? Why had we gone from 35, to 20 to 10 to 4 entries per race? I only realized after it was gone that the best things about racing at my local raceway were the camaraderie, the friendship, the good times and...... the expectation of more to come.

    SCM's are raceway killers. My friends, for the most part, quit coming to the raceway because they had little or no hope of winning. Slot car racing has an extremely low customer retention rate. The number of people progressing from newbie's running rentals to buying an RTR to building the first race car to multiple race cars is an ever dwinding and steep pyramid. The hope for a win or at least to be competitive keeps people moving up the ladder. That said, I believe the step from RTR to race car is the most important. Hope springs eternal. Buy that first race car, dreams of a miraculous win pop into your head. Get crushed by some one with 15 bullet race cars, a slot car box as big as Texas and enough motors to fill an ice chest and a little of the air (hope) goes out of the balloon. Get yelled at because you come off and take out the local hotshot and slot racing doesn't seem quite as fun as it once did.

    Yeah building motors is not rocket science but to a new racer it appears to
    be a difficult and expensive one to learn. Remember hearing strange language the likes of "Chinese 16D, Super 16D, Contender, Super Wasp/Hornet, Group 10, X-12, 42 degree timing, commutator, open motor, balanced, unbalanced, air gap, cobalt, ceramic, Super Big Foot II's?" (I bet some newbie thought SBFII's were special slot racing shoes.) Confusing stuff. Lots to learn.

    My goal with the Falcon was simple: do something to even the playing field where the biggest part of the problem/perception/skill acquistion for the newbie lay...the MOTOR. Yes the best driver will win the most races but a little bad luck by the local hotshot opens the door, the racing is closer, the margin of victory is smaller, the cars are easier to drive without that lump of a 16D in back and (key point) the honest loser cannot blame the motor. No one can deny that more racers have a chance to win a Falcon race. All good things to my mind. All things that make more people stay in the hobby and keep trying.

    As a recovering SCM, I think Falcons are a great thing. That important step from onlooker to racer will be a little easier for the newbies. A smart track owner quietly asks his SCM's to stay out of the Falcon classes or at least has multiple driver classifications creating multiple winners. If he gives the Novice class winner as much notice for his win as the Pro when announcing the race results, more newbies are going to stay involved. A little recognition in front of one peers goes a long way. The result is we SCM's have more people to race with, more friends, more turn marshalls, more good times at the raceway and more memories. There will be more chances to feed our addiction because there will be more races and raceways that remain in business.


    Todd (Radical Racing) Radke

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a van down by the river!
    Posts
    112

    You da man!

    Couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks for helping build up the racing attendance everywhere across the country with the creation of Falcon motors! It is more fun racing with 30 guys than racing with 4!!!!
    Thanks Radical!!

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Lake Saint Louis, MO
    Posts
    615

    Hear! Hear!

    They may be boring on Blue King's but they are interesting to drive on smaller tracks.

    What Todd said is absolutely true. Several years ago my son Justin and I entered a 3-hour endurance race using falcon powered flexi cars. Little did we know we didn't have any chance at all of winning, but we PERCEIVED we did because we weren't getting blown away by several feet every lap. We were able to keep close to hotshots for several laps at a time because the cars were both easy to drive AND the differences in motor performance was small.

    After that, I became hooked on organized series racing, invested waaaay toooo much money in slot cars and am now having a ball racing everything from Vintage F1's to Wing Cars.

    I still enjoy sealed motor racing although I prefer 16Ds and Super 16Ds to the "Gutless Wonders" as Bob Oaks calls the Falcons...but they still have their place.

    Jeff
    JayGee Racing Controllers - 24 Bands of Bliss
    www.jaygeeracing.com

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    The Alamo City
    Posts
    505

    SPEED-CRAZED MORONS WANT TO RACE, NOT REBUILD MOTORS

    And Iíll just add this to all these well thought out comments:
    I was rewinding burnt up 16d motors within a week after I found my first commercial slot car track in 1964 (& ONLY 3 pole 16ds because burnt up 5 & 7 pole Pittmans, Wilsons, Strombeckers & other such rejects from the model train & electric razor industry were way too much hassle to wind).
    Point beingÖsometimes itís really hard to see the forest for the trees. I was not attracted to the rebuilding thing by the scrumptious aroma of melted formaldehyde plastic endbells or the outhouse stink of burnt wire insulation. No. What forced the issue was the refusal of Uncle Sam to increase my Army salary to meet the expenses of my newfound addiction. Most motor rebuilders Iíve seen since have exactly the same motivation, saving a buck. As anyone who has raced USRA classes can confirm, thereís no joy in sitting around building umpteen motors, but if youíre short of money & long on spare time itís a real money saver. Unfortunately, it also means you learn way more than the non-rebuilder about what makes a motor tick & what needs to be done to make it faster. Sure, money can buy speed & faster motors are available, but the rebuilder forces racing classes to be more expensiveÖeither build it or buy it.
    The beginner that sees straightaway speed KNOWS the motor makes the difference.
    BUT, forcing the beginner to either buy a blueprinted motor or learn to tweak things themselves adds an additional rung on the ladder thatís not necessary to have a fun race.
    Whiney complaints about inequality between the Falcons apply equally to ANY motor. None of them are EXACTLY the same. Deal with it. Tune the car. Learn to drive. And if you think buying more motors to get that one great one is the solution, then watch out for guys like me that will foil your plan by changing the rules so the motor is less relevant:
    More ground clearance. Make it top heavy.
    Maximum weight. Make it too light.
    Scale bodies & scale tire diameters.
    Tracks with short straights & flat corners.
    Bet I know more about this stuff than you do.
    Last edited by JimHT; 03-25-2006 at 09:52 AM.
    "I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." -- Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    307
    Bravo, Bravo, all hail Todd "papa falcon" Radke! I think your development of the Falcon motor is as important as the flexi chassis, or electronic controller. I couldn't be happier that your a recovering SCM. You should be very proud of yourself. Now all you need to work on is comm's that can't be tweaked by twisting them. The levels that some SCM's will stoop too is appalling! I will be a very happy supporter of the falcon motor for a long, long time!

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Lebanon Pa.
    Posts
    124
    You are right Mark, we had a lot of fun racing those 1/32 cars on that challanging flat track of yours. I hope we can convince more of you racers out there to join us.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a van down by the river!
    Posts
    112

    1/32 falcon flat trakin'

    Damn, he got me hooked on it yesterday morning! I just got done putting one together....freshly purchased 24 hours ago! Those little things are a blast to drive!!
    My oval stuff is for sale!!??

    Don't think I'll get to race the flat track now that Williams Grove starts Friday night racing! Maybe next fall for sure!

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    fairfield ca.
    Posts
    339

    yeah for todd

    hey todd ,as a recovering scm you have fallen of the wagon ( you have many fast cars and many fast bullets) and allways a threat at any level of racing.with that said ,koodo's to you on the falcons progress. i am still waiting for that falcon flat track nationals ( 1/32 f1, sports cars espeacially) see you at the scm nats....

    herman

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