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Thread: Pro Grp-12 Rules

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    122

    Question Pro Grp-12 Rules

    May the endbell & hardware be modified
    to fit properly. Also may the hoods be
    ground to clear the shunts.

    Thanks, Mike Blevins

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    87
    No, If you want to do all that race Int 15
    Tim T

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Lawn guyland NY
    Posts
    2,309
    I'm with you Tim !!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    190

    Talking Whats up with that

    Hey Guys
    Why do you have act retarded. Mike was just asking a question and you have to go off and say (no,you should race int15) who wants to read that crap.

    Zach Holley

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    CANADA AH!
    Posts
    331

    I do!

    I want to read that CRAP! So race 15's!

    John

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Long Island,NY
    Posts
    1,834
    I am retarted..LOL

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    87

    Re: Whats up with that

    Originally posted by Z and m racing
    Hey Guys
    Why do you have act retarded. Mike was just asking a question and you have to go off and say (no,you should race int15) who wants to read that crap.

    Zach Holley
    Zach
    Thats not what I said. (I said If you want to do all that, race Int 15).
    If people keep voting in these rule changes it's going to make it Int 12. We already have a class that allows all these things people want voted in but not very many race it. So if you want to do all these things race Int 15!
    Tim T

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Victorville, CA
    Posts
    1,725

    One thing leads to another?

    Hey Tim (and others),

    Mike simply asked if several blueprinting items had been included in the new menu of options for Pro Gr.12. He didn't say he wanted to do these things, or that they should be legal, he just wanted to know if everyone else will be doing them.

    I tend to agree that the new Pro Gr.12 rules went way too far in turning the formerly titled 'boxstock' motors into an all out built up motor - but it won't be 'Int. 12' unless the weight rule is changed, and I hope not.

    Mike, as for your specific questions: Endbells may not be modified, but all C can endbells fit all C cans, provided the can has been straightened on a can slug, so not to worry. The hardware sometimes does not fit perfectly, and as a generality, you can stretch a hole in the plates or hoods to make do, and nobody ever checks or cares. As for modifying the hoods for additional shunt clearance, the letter of the law does not allow this, but for the typical sprint race (24 minute main) its not at all necessary. I do have a European customer who specializes in endurance racing who has upped his motor life to 12 hours and more by slotting the hoods to allow the brush to wear more completely. Of course, he doesn't have to follow National USRA rules!
    A clean slotcar is a happy slotcar!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    87

    One thing leads to another

    Monty
    I was'nt trying to piss anyone off. I just answered the question and told him if we wanted to do these things to race Int.
    I was for moving components but not shunts, epoxy,bearings and honing. But I was'nt allowed to vote. Oh well thats all in the past. I just wish it would stop somewere. I race Gr 12 locally but not at Nats so I could pit my sons car. But next year we will both race pro so we can vote.
    Tim T

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    884
    Yo Timmy!!

    I say let it go...BS is done

    they already had to go back and create a new stock 15 class because the screwed this one up too much...who cares what they do now?
    Chilli

    Trolling the boards and fanning the flames once again...at least for a day or two.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Lawn guyland NY
    Posts
    2,309

    Who is they?

    They are all the racers, who wanted it that way! I don't agree with it either. Maybe if enough people hate it, they can vote it back to way it should be?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, WA (U.S.A)
    Posts
    98

    Angry Re: Who is they?

    Originally posted by Bent rim
    They are all the racers, who wanted it that way! I don't agree with it either. Maybe if enough people hate it, they can vote it back to way it should be?
    Back the truck up (the new guy just fell off...)

    Who, precisely, voted on this?

    Two posts back, it was stated that one needed to race in a pro class in order to vote. Is this correct? Only pro racers voted in the rulemaking for an entry level class?

    Before I shake my head, climb on my soapbox, and otherwise bat the bee hive, someone tell me I've got that part wrong.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    87

    They is

    They are: the people entered in that class, to vote only on that class. Am gr12 is still the same.
    We run am in the great plains because if anyone but me and Nathan went to a USRA race they would be cosidered am in this class.
    Last edited by Tim T; 11-14-2002 at 12:32 AM.
    Tim T

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, WA (U.S.A)
    Posts
    98

    Re: They is

    Originally posted by Tim T
    They are: the people entered in that class, to vote only on that class. Am gr12 is still the same.
    We run am in the great plains because if anyone but me and Nathan went to a USRA race they would be cosidered am in this class.
    Then the amateurs vote only for their class rules, right?

    So how did the rules for this "box stock" entry class get so out of hand?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Victorville, CA
    Posts
    1,725

    Explanation

    Jawn,

    The fact is, as an 18 year old class, 'Boxstock' is not really an entry level class, and hasn't been thought so for a long time. It is supposed to be a relatively simple class, however, with all the major components selected off a legal list.

    At the Nationals level, there has been an amateur and expert (usually misidentified as 'pro') division since 1996. In most years since, both races were the same day and issues concerning boxstock were voted on by the participants as a mixed group.

    This year, the amateur and expert races ran on two consecutive days. The rules meeting was on expert day, and many amateurs were not there. It is the first time in my memory that any proposals for the class were targeted at just the expert class, but thats how it went. My own proposal (in favor of allowing motor setups made from mixed parts) was consolodated with similar ones from other people, and came out as a proposal for just the expert group. Other proposals (just for the expert group!) passed allowing ballbearings, shunts, insulated springs, epoxy behind magnets, and honeing of magnets. I can tell you that there were a great grand total of NO MORE THAN TWENTY voters in the affected class! Only the one proposal could have passed unanimous, 'cuz I voted against all the others! There was a great enough negative reaction when the news broke that the USRA ethics committee revisited the subjects and rejected the ballbearings, leaving the rest intact.

    Now, for better or worse, there are THREE different USRA motor formulas for Group 12! 1)Amateur wing racing - the traditional motor from the last few years. 2) Div. II (non wing) - the traditional motor with mixed brand parts allowed and 3) expert wings - the full tilt built up motor, less bearings. Also popular on the international scene is a fourth variation, with ballbearings OK. If its hard to track them for me - and I build slotcar motors for a living - I can just imagine the confusion among good folks such as yourself.
    A clean slotcar is a happy slotcar!!

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