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Thread: Third Eye (and other) Controllers Legal for USRA Racing

  1. #1
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    Third Eye (and other) Controllers Legal for USRA Racing

    Mark Greene asked me this morning to read the Third Eye Blind thread in this forum and to respond. By the time I got here the thread appears to have been deleted by someone, so I have not been able to read the posts, but Mark did give me a brief summary earlier.

    The Third Eye controller is legal for USRA racing, and in fact has been used by Paul Gawronski over the last few years to win multiple USRA Nats titles.

    I believe Mark's imaprtiallity in this issue was questioned as he is a distributor for Third Eye controllers. I am not a distributor or in any way connected with Third Eye, but I am familiar with Howards controllers as I race monthly in Norcal (yes I do drive 500 miles a month to go race up there) where of course Howard is based. In addition there are also several SoCal racers who use them, so they have been around and in use for a number of years.

    The way the rule in the USRA rulebook has been officially read over the last few years, and I believe the original intention for the rule is that a controller must not increase the amperage and/or voltage at the track. The references to the components in the rule are intended to relate to the actual control circuit, not to ancillary circuits driving other circuits and/or devices.

    In very simple terms if the controller does not increase the voltage or amps available to the car/track a controller is legal.

    As someone who has built and used their own controllers for many years, I think I have a pretty good understanding of this subject, and to the best of my knowledge Howard is aware of the rule and his controllers are compliant with the rule.

    I also have checked more than one of Howards (and other manufacturers) controllers at different times (without his permission or his knowledge) to see if voltage is increased at the track, and have never found that to be the case.

    The rule in the rulebook is probably a little outdated now. A couple of years ago a group was working to come up with a new rule that covered the newer controllers a little better, but we never saw any completed rule proposals. Maybe it's time to revive that project.

    Chris.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for clearing the air.

    Sometimes living "by the rules" is a very hard thing to do.
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  3. #3
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    Chris thank you for the quick answer on the controller issue. Looks like we our still going to the nats in April. Wont have to cancel.

    Steve Forsyth
    ParmaPSE
    3rd Eye Technology

  4. #4
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    Oct 2004
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    Palmdale,Ca.
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    Will we ever know how an active brake circuit makes a slot controller wonderful? Dan
    Dan Ruddock
    DR racing products
    40256 Crestridge Way
    Palmdale, Ca. 93551
    661-224-1185
    www.gofastest.com/dr
    dr-40@juno.com

  5. #5
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    Yes Thank you chris for that confirmation, and to Zippity I didn't want to get sarcastic with you but my concern was that I didn't want to spend $1000.00 on controllers and then find out later that they are indeed illegal and I'm out a G!
    T-ROY

  6. #6
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    My guess? Two C's

    Dan,
    Without putting words in Howards mouth, my guess would be Cost and Consistency.

    I own a Ruddock DR-40 a Difalco Fanatic and the 3rd Eye Renegade. His 3rd eye brake circuit is without a doubt the most adjustable of the three. It also has the best max brake too! I can get close with the Difalco and the Ruddock if they are clean. But that doesn't last long.

    Once you have the circuit designed and laid out on the board, I'm guessing the components for his brake will be less expensive than the 2.5 ohm rheostat. Nowadays they go for about $30 even in quantity.

    On top of the obvious mentioned above is the fact that it doesn't have a dead band and brake position. Don't ask me how he does it but as soon as you apply any pressure to the trigger you're back on the power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ruddock
    Will we ever know how an active brake circuit makes a slot controller wonderful? Dan
    Talk is Cheap!!!
    Because Supply Always Exceeds Demand!

  7. #7
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    T Roy... this was not really about the money... we are slot racers and to win and go fast money is no object....the question posed was in reference to approval and the use of such devices during a USRA stanchioned events...

    Dan, my guess is that the use of the 16 or 35 volt 1000uf cap provides some output voltage in the opposite polarity during track power off condition to provide drag and braking to the motor... don't ask me why... I like to coast by my competitor...

    I guess now we can all use capacitors in our controller design... sweet...
    There are "Racers" and there are "Romans".....which one are you?

    You're not Paranoid.... People are talking about you....

  8. #8
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    So for the added complexity and cost saving of this brake setup it saves a little maintenance and judging by the price list for a controller that will only handle group 12's for $230 sounds like the cost savings are not ending up in the end users hands or the raceways profit margins. As for better brakes I have built a few DR-40 controllers with a brake relay which did not need a capacitor to work and yes the brakes were slightly better and the trigger stop contacts cleanliness was not as important. Because of the heavier gauge wires on my DR-30 it will give the best brakes of my product line at the cost of having to hold up something heavier. So it is apples and oranges and not some arm waving break though tech and as for it's reliability only time will tell.



    From how I interpret the rules the controller breaks the letter of the law but not the heart of the law which is don't do anything to add power to the track which the controller does not do. But the rule says capacitors are prohibited which is the letter of the law so how the rules are written now I would say yes it breaks the rules. But in my opinion what matters is the heart of the law, which means the rules need to be changed. Dan
    Last edited by Dan Ruddock; 03-13-2007 at 10:19 PM.
    Dan Ruddock
    DR racing products
    40256 Crestridge Way
    Palmdale, Ca. 93551
    661-224-1185
    www.gofastest.com/dr
    dr-40@juno.com

  9. #9
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    Oct 2004
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    How is what I said calling it a bad product, sounds like a good product which I am sure it is but I see it as over hyped. Let the end user judge if the features it has at it's price point are what they want. A lot of racers out there won't stop winning races because they don't have one. Dan
    Dan Ruddock
    DR racing products
    40256 Crestridge Way
    Palmdale, Ca. 93551
    661-224-1185
    www.gofastest.com/dr
    dr-40@juno.com

  10. #10
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    Jun 2002
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    Pine, AZ
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    Dan,

    as far as I can see people just don't like the Third Eye controller because of the brake control. I for one love it do to the fact there are about 500 power bands on the version I have. Which makes it great for Eurosport racing. The Difaclo at least made an improvement to 15 I think it was. Another reason Third Eye has been doing so good is the promotion. Howard and Difalco show up to some of the big races and sponsor events, I for one have never seen you at a race or sponsor any races. For someone that lives fairly close to my area, I have never seen you near a race in Socal. There is no need to bash on other manufactuer's equipment. I have seen over the last three years Third Eye taking a huge leap in the Controller Industry of slot cars. At this years ISRA Nationals I saw lots of Third Eye and Difalco controllers, but very few Ruddocks. Mybe it is time for an advancement in Ruddock controllers.

    Jonathan
    ParmaPSE
    3rd Eye Technology

  11. #11
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    Because someone is going to kick my A$$ cause it is 1:30 in the morning
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    Umm I have seen Dan at a Socal race

    Not trying to get in the middle but I have seen Dan at a few Socal races I have been at.
    Geez cry a little louder so EVERYONE knows just what kind of woman you are!!!

  12. #12
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    Aug 2002
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    I have a question. How may top scale racers other than Paul Gawronskii and Jonathan Forsyth are using the Third Eye controller. How about the Alan Orhens, and Duran Trujillos fo the world? Are we to assume that all scale racers are using it. When did the Ruddock become an outdated controller? Speaking only of racing wings, because that is all I race, and never using a Third Eye, I think the Ruddock is an excellent controller.

    Ron
    Last edited by R. Herrera; 03-14-2007 at 07:03 AM.

  13. #13
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Forsyth Racing
    Dan,

    as far as I can see people just don't like the Third Eye controller because of the brake control. I for one love it do to the fact there are about 500 power bands on the version I have. Which makes it great for Eurosport racing. The Difaclo at least made an improvement to 15 I think it was. Another reason Third Eye has been doing so good is the promotion. Howard and Difalco show up to some of the big races and sponsor events, I for one have never seen you at a race or sponsor any races. For someone that lives fairly close to my area, I have never seen you near a race in Socal. There is no need to bash on other manufactuer's equipment. I have seen over the last three years Third Eye taking a huge leap in the Controller Industry of slot cars. At this years ISRA Nationals I saw lots of Third Eye and Difalco controllers, but very few Ruddocks. Mybe it is time for an advancement in Ruddock controllers.

    Jonathan
    Damn Jon, big hit...
    I do not think either of the controllers made to date are really in question here as far as who shows up at big races to promote and or sponsor events. The topic of conversation originally was the use of capacitors and certain electronic device not for use as written in the rule during USRA competition.

    Bottom Line!

    We all have a preference and like what we like for whatever reason/reasons those may be. I have used many controllers including the Third EYE (funky name BTW) and like them all. I play alot at USRA events so I chose not to compete with a controller which I knew was not legal (up until now) cause I new the rules and stuck with it. But since Chris's post that has changed. I commend all the manufactures for there products and enjoy them all. Many of them should be commended for the designs and improvements they have presented us. (((Fill in Gratitude here)))

    Dan has been doing this a long time for this industry and has a great, legal design in production and I am sure it will see a face lift soon.

    Like many racers do like the bells and whistles such as little bright lights and knobs and switches, and clickers and funky colored wiring of such. My original post was not to rile the Hatfield’s and McCoy’s but was a question to the designer of the controller for information ONLY. I did not and do not want anyone including Howard, who was not very happy with the inquiry about his product to interpret my question as a judgment of integrity on his person. Now, granted he did call me ignorant, and at times it may seem too many I am, but I have forgiven him and will not insult his demeanor as he did to mine. I am not a person who goes around poking sticks just to berate ones good name or product.

    Again lets stick to racing and having fun and if you win using a Third Eye, Ruddock or DeFalco, or a damn piece of wire across the panel, you have my congratulations and admiration. The great thing about this hobby is we do have choices and make them based on our own opinion and first hand experiences.

    Good luck to all, see you in PA.
    Last edited by HurricaneLarry; 03-14-2007 at 07:19 AM.
    There are "Racers" and there are "Romans".....which one are you?

    You're not Paranoid.... People are talking about you....

  14. #14
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by THOBART
    Not trying to get in the middle but I have seen Dan at a few Socal races I have been at.
    Then don't ! !

    Big Man with little gun...

    And shouldn't you be in a Midget tossing contest somewhere???? :P
    Last edited by HurricaneLarry; 03-14-2007 at 07:39 AM.
    There are "Racers" and there are "Romans".....which one are you?

    You're not Paranoid.... People are talking about you....

  15. #15
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    Bravo, Bravo well said Larry P. Applause, applause

    Ron

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