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Thread: Introducing The IRRA

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Denville, NJ
    Posts
    659
    Thanks. We're trying!
    Joe " Noose" Neumeister - Team Nutley
    Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies
    Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967!
    Chairman - IRRA Body Committee
    The only thing bad about retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver Pa
    Posts
    751
    One question and please understand I'm very new to this.How come only one motor builder and will there be a problem with turn around time to get motors back in your hand.This is just a question, my first Retro Race was great and I attended it at Keystone.But bad luck hit my finacees' motor that was geared like my own, my ran well for me. But hers on the other hand made 7 laps and died.We didn't get upset cause we were there to have fun and we did. Meeting you folks was a treat and your understanding about new people and questions was handled professionly.Hope this is not a bad question.We will make some these events for sure. Thanks Poppa Rat

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Denville, NJ
    Posts
    659
    The East Coast developed the refurbishing program with Fast Ones to start the process. The IRRA has been seeking another refurbisher. Those in mind are BOW and Beauf. The IRRA will keep everyone posed. As for the East Coast, at this time they felt there was no need to go to anyone else.

    Please note that IRRA rules also allow the use of the Falcon 7,Chinese Arm ProSlot and the new TSR D3 motor. All of thse have proven to be equal in performnce has recently demonstrated during the Columbus, OH IRRA warm-up race. FYI, A Falcon 7 won.
    Joe " Noose" Neumeister - Team Nutley
    Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies
    Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967!
    Chairman - IRRA Body Committee
    The only thing bad about retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver Pa
    Posts
    751
    Noose thanks for the reply. Pops

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    426
    I would stick with ONE motor rebuilder...

    As the GM of the Jennerstown Speedway we started a crate late model class using sealed engines. Tom Curley, the highly successful director of the ACT Series in New England, suggested I stick with a single rebuilder... easier to control and since he would get ALL the business there was no need to compete against the competetion and be tempted to enhance certain peoples powerplants.

    I didn't heed his advice, and competitors immediatly began pointing fingers that certain rebuilders were not following the rules. Turned ugly.

    Stick with one. Much simplier to police, and will cut down on the racers PERCEPTION that someone is getting a better motor.

    Or, just go to handout motors bought the day of the race.

    LM

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Alexander, NC
    Posts
    55

    Recondition Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by larrymatt
    I would stick with ONE motor rebuilder...

    As the GM of the Jennerstown Speedway we started a crate late model class using sealed engines. Tom Curley, the highly successful director of the ACT Series in New England, suggested I stick with a single rebuilder... easier to control and since he would get ALL the business there was no need to compete against the competetion and be tempted to enhance certain peoples powerplants.

    I didn't heed his advice, and competitors immediatly began pointing fingers that certain rebuilders were not following the rules. Turned ugly.

    Stick with one. Much simplier to police, and will cut down on the racers PERCEPTION that someone is getting a better motor.

    Or, just go to handout motors bought the day of the race.

    LM
    When I raced in the UK, the club I was a member of adopted the rule to allow the reconditioning of the TSR motors.
    The results were very bad. Factory sealed motors were being out performed by the reconditioned motors, and many of the member really could not afford the reconditioned motors over the factory sealed motors (Twice the Cost). That year we lost a few members. After that year, the rule to allow reconditioned motors was remove and every one was back on the same playing field, members were happy again.
    This class should not be about how fast your motor can be, its to challenge your skill as a car builder and a driver. Making sure that all the motors are equal will ensure that those skills are properly challenged.
    Mind you this was my experience across the pond. Back here in the US, there might be better controls on the reconditioning to avoid making the motor better, rather recondition the motor back to the factory standard.
    My two bits worth.

    Paul
    Paul Lambert
    Bad Elf
    Photographer and Slow Slot Car Builder and Racer

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,597

    My opinion

    There are real problems with the whole reconditioning deal, heck the whole sealed motor deal.

    We all know and have seen the blueprinted sealed motors on ebay, even redone falcons. There put out by the same guy doing the recon for IRRA or east coast retro.

    The sealed motors we have in slot racing are a joke to begin with, it is much more cost effective for the racers to not have seals, but to have motor spec's and inforce them. Also makes teching them much easier. No seal for the tech guys to break & have to replace to inspect the motors. It also allows the low budget racers to do his/her own motor work. i.e. cleaning, magnet zapping,com trueing ect.

    Also currently the fast guys in the east coast retro have a dozen + Complete motors. That cost could be reduceed by only needing a few set ups and having multipal arms. Also when a arm go's bad ,you only need to buy a arm not a whole motor.

    The only way to do true sealed motor racing, is a hand out at the race with very limited time to install said motor and zero tampering, i.e no changing springs or brushes ect.
    Last edited by mark g; 02-07-2008 at 08:48 AM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    barrington, il.
    Posts
    972

    The Key to "sealed" handout motors

    You have hit the nail on the head!! Been at races where a sealed motor was handed out and then there was 1 hour to "set your car up" Trouble was, the 2 parma "pro" guys sat there fiddling with the sealed motors and then proceeded to pull everyone 8 feet down the straight.Not cheating by the posted rules, just an "advantage". A striaght handout, put in the motor,back to tech!! MAYBE this will help!! Wanked Wanker!
    Racing now at Wanker Valley Raceway and awaiting puppies!!

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Alexander, NC
    Posts
    55

    A Pro Race Only then the Other Race

    Quote Originally Posted by brassrodman
    You have hit the nail on the head!! Been at races where a sealed motor was handed out and then there was 1 hour to "set your car up" Trouble was, the 2 parma "pro" guys sat there fiddling with the sealed motors and then proceeded to pull everyone 8 feet down the straight.Not cheating by the posted rules, just an "advantage". A striaght handout, put in the motor,back to tech!! MAYBE this will help!! Wanked Wanker!
    I just talk to a friend in the UK and he reminded me about the Falcon Pro Series Rules.
    If you make chassis to sell, or recondition motor for others or are a track owner or sponsored by a track or manufacture, then you are a Pro and can only Pro Points for that race. Everyone else races in the same race will win in the Amature Group.
    In short, you have two podiums, one for the Pros and One for the amatures.
    And if an amature wins, all the better.
    There is a catch, if your are handed a chassis or motor by a pro to race and you did not pay any money for it, you can be considered a pro under the sponsor rule.
    This way, the pros who tune their motors will be on more level ground with the other pros and the amatures will be on their own level ground.
    Would it work here? you be the judge.

    Paul
    Paul Lambert
    Bad Elf
    Photographer and Slow Slot Car Builder and Racer

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Denville, NJ
    Posts
    659
    The IRRA has not formed driver classes as there has not been the need to nor at the time is there a reason to do so. Some regions, such as the East Coast, in their retro series, did classify drivers based on their history, etc. and it worked ok so far for the 1st series.
    Joe " Noose" Neumeister - Team Nutley
    Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies
    Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967!
    Chairman - IRRA Body Committee
    The only thing bad about retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Alexander, NC
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by Noose
    The IRRA has not formed driver classes as there has not been the need to nor at the time is there a reason to do so. Some regions, such as the East Coast, in their retro series, did classify drivers based on their history, etc. and it worked ok so far for the 1st series.
    I'm not advocating the introduction of classes in the IRRA, just the club I was a member of had such a huge number of drivers/builders that also sold their chassis, or painted bodies as well tuned motors. These drivers/builders were clearly winning most of the races. So the decision was made back then to create the two classes, and it has worked very well.
    Many of th other drivers have a better chance of learning from the experts or Pros as they call them.
    I am not trying to rock the boat, if it looks like I am, then I apologize.

    Paul
    Paul Lambert
    Bad Elf
    Photographer and Slow Slot Car Builder and Racer

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Retired National USRA Director
    Posts
    1,985
    Quote Originally Posted by mark g
    We all know and have seen the blueprinted sealed motors on ebay, even redone falcons. There put out by the same guy doing the recon for IRRA or east coast retro.
    Wrong!!!! As the IRRA motor refurbusher, I have NEVER listed Falcon or IRRA Sealed motors on E-Bay for sale.
    "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,597
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Hershman
    Wrong!!!! As the IRRA motor refurbusher, I have NEVER listed Falcon or IRRA Sealed motors on E-Bay for sale.

    So you've never sold redone falcons or sealed motors ?

    keep in mind I never said they were billed as IRRA motors.


    How many times have you posted about sealed motors not being feasable? or being capable of remaining sealed? You have even gone as far as to post info on how to open these motors and reseal them. Have you had a change of mind?

    This whole hoopla started because I posted that we were going to hold "DISCUSSION" on some of the IRRA motor rules. Key word being DISCUSSION!!!
    Last edited by mark g; 02-07-2008 at 09:17 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Retired National USRA Director
    Posts
    1,985
    Quote Originally Posted by mark g
    So you've never sold redone falcons or sealed motors on ebay?

    keep in mind I never said they were billed as IRRA motors.


    I'm guessing you've had a sudden epiphany on sealed motor ethics? Maybe we can dig up some of your previous posts on sealed motors. Have you changed your mind about sealed motor racing?
    No Mark, I have NEVER sold redone Falcon motors on E-Bay. Yes I have and do sell Sealed Parma motors on E-Bay. No Pro-Slot or other sealed motors on E-Bay. Raceways buy resealed and blueprinted motors from us as well.

    Besides, what would sealed Parma motors have to do with IRRA??? NOTHING!!

    No sudden epiphany on sealed motors. I still disagree with it for most of the stupid reasons for doing it or the fact that a seal does not make the motors equal as some would like to make the masses believe it does. The funniest part is when the MFG's claim they are "tamperproof". How can they be "tamperproof" with the foil seal they use and many others are taking them apart and resealing them as well.

    In regards to IRRA sealed motors and the rebuilding services...... their rules are their rules. They race 40.00 sealed motors that are allowed to be taken apart and refurbished by an authorized motor service and resealed by said authorized motor service. This is done purely for economical reasons and not for perfomance reasons. Some of the motors serviced, the motor performance is increased due to better balancing, alignment, etc over the standard production motors. Other motors pick up no increase in performance due to the production motor being better than the others in regards to balance, alignment, etc. Most pick up due to rebuilding the motor after it's been run for several races. Standard maintainence.

    It is also done so racers don't have to work on their own motors and to insure all the motors have been checked for racer tampering as well as to insure the motors are legal after servicing.

    I know that you and a few others like to think I give preference to certain racers and that is not true. All the motors are treated the same and rebuilt the same. It does me no good to treat one or two guys better as I don't use the race results in advertising or marketing. There is no reason for me to give "special" service to one over the others. I don't care who wins the races and I don't care if they win with one of my rebuilds or a production motor off the wall.

    That is not what it is about. It's about racers sending their motor in for rebuild, getting equal rebuilding service and getting longer life out of their motors and investment.

    I have no problem with other builders offering a rebuild service.... if they want to go out and spend a few hundred bucks to get some seals made...then go for it. I can only hope they come up with a "tamperproof" seal as we have.
    "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,597

    Ron

    I'm sorry this seem's to have become about you, that really wasn't my intent. My intent was that sealed motor racing is a fares. even your seals are not above being tampered with, all it takes is knowing a printing service!

    Bottom line to sealed motor racing is the guy that buys the most go's the fastest.

    And yes Ron, I like you have provided tampering service, after all we are in the buisness of providing racers what they want. And yes I buy and sell your motors as well
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

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