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View Poll Results: TIME TO CHANGE USRA SCALE NATIONALS?

Voters
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  • Ron's Proposal as Quoted

    16 24.62%
  • Ron's Proposal with some changes

    47 72.31%
  • Stay with the current program

    2 3.08%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Usra Scale Division - Time For Change?

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Usra Scale Division - Time For Change?

    I consider the following quote by Ron Hershman to be a viable proposal. People, let's be positive. I know many of you say, "I've been doing this a long time and you'll NEVER get a change". You may be right, but at least through this poll we can find out how much support there can be for the IDEA of a change. Who knows, if this looks like a good idea to a lot of racers, it may carry enough weight to actually make the change.

    Ron Hershman:

    "The USRA needs to go back to 5 Core classes and no more. This also needs to be ran in 3 to 4 days max. Anymore than that and your asking for less racers and participation.

    What is needed is........................

    Group 10 classes that do not require high dollar set-ups, epoxying mags in place, etc. Should be a low tech class that appeals to the weekly racers out there. Chinese only D-Can set-ups. If you want high dollar parts, hard to build stuff or epoxying...then race another class where it is allowed.

    GTP or LMP...one or the other...but we don't need both. One could be for Am's with D-Can motors like the Gr 10 class and a EX class with C-Can motors.

    GT-12..... need I say more...open to all. No 2 mm axles, current X-12 motor rules..anyone can run it.

    Euro 1/32...... open to all and wide open

    Euro 1/24...... open to all and wide open"

  2. #2
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    Also, consider the second part of Ron's proposal.....any more comments welcome!

    Ron Hershman:

    "If that don't make ya happy..... then may I suggest.....

    Two divisions of scale racing.............. two Nats...separate events

    Stamped steel... Gr 10, GTP, LMP, 4.5" stock cars Could be run in three days at most any raceway and tons of racers would show up.

    Hi Tech...... GT-12, E-12, 1/32 and 1/24 F-1's, Euro 32 and 24. Another event that could be ran in 3 days. We used to run 32 and 24 Euro's on the same day with way more entries than they get today.

    Either way anyone could race all they wanted in less time."

    Final note from me to Ron: thanks for showing your interest and giving us some clear ideas to think about while we are at the Scale Nats next week. I believe USRA Scale racers are primed for some kind of change. The only reason I can afford this year's Nats is my daughter lives in Naperville only 20 minutes away and she has a pull out sofa!!!

  3. #3
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    My question is this: how (quickly) can these suggested changed be accomplished given the current USRA management structure?

    If the only "official" method of making such radical changes is to have the racers at the two Nats vote on such such proposals, when can such a sea change be accomplished? Or is the USRA BoD empowered to make such radical changes in the the organization's structure?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassy
    If the only "official" method of making such radical changes is to have the racers at the two Nats vote on such such proposals, when can such a sea change be accomplished?
    Da Rulebook sez:

    ARTICLE III – EMERGENCY CLAUSE
    A. EMERGENCY RULE CHANGES
    The USRA Board of Directors may add, delete, or modify any rule(s) to
    ensure fairness in the sport of slot car racing. All decisions will be final.

    The argument can, of course, be made that fairness has nothing to do with this... but... da rulebook then sez:

    Board of Directors - This committee will consist of the National Director, the Immediate Past National Director, the Wing-Car Director, the Scale Director, the Wing-Car Tech Director, and the Scale Tech Director. The
    Board of Directors will be charged by the USRA to make decisions outside
    of the normal rule change voting procedures defined in the current
    rulebook. Any ties in votes will be broken by the National Director. The
    Board of Directors may overturn or change any decision made by any
    other USRA committee.

    And in case anyone's interested, da rulebook sez the Directors are all to be elected by the members who show up at the "national meeting." So what happened to the on-line vote? I guess I wasn't paying attention when it passed into oblivion.



    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer.
    Edward R. Murrow
    Peter N. Varlan

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassy
    My question is this: how (quickly) can these suggested changed be accomplished given the current USRA management structure?

    If the only "official" method of making such radical changes is to have the racers at the two Nats vote on such such proposals, when can such a sea change be accomplished? Or is the USRA BoD empowered to make such radical changes in the the organization's structure?
    Well the first step would be to take a vote and end the scale division of the USRA. Only the scale racers can vote on this. Not the wing racers. The Director has made it clear that this year scale guys will not be voting on wing stuff and vice versa.

    Then the new group or org would get started on working everything out. The new management/dictator/BOD... your choice.... would get the ball rolling.

    Then decide on a Dictator or a BOD. My thoughts is a Dictator for the first 2 years, then handing it over to a BOD for the future.

    The main thing is that who ever is in charge be voted in based on their merits, commitment to making it work, who will put the time and effort first and before their own racing/business/etc.

    It's not a "popularity" contest. It's about putting a man or group in charge of our future and doing what is needed for future growth.
    "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

  6. #6
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    I have been saying quietly for some time that USRA / ISRA slot racing has become too specialized, and because of this, too spread out on any given racing weekend.

    Ron's proposal seems to return to a more focused racing program. I would be in favor of trying it verbatim for a couple of years and then reviewing it for "tweaks".

    IIRC, back in the "good old days" there were a max of 3 classes. These being Pro, Semi-Pro and Amateur.

    I feel that there are currently too many classes that appear and perform similarly; what is their purpose?
    ‎‎"Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do." - Steve Jobs 1955-2011

  7. #7
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    Pete,

    I'm not sure the emergency clause or the listed powers of the BoD as currently defined clearly authorize their use in such major changes.

    Ron's suggestion is probably a better approach, though I also believe his Dictator suggestion would receive far less support than would a multi-member BoD.

    Lots of folks seem to feel that the USRA needs a new direction. The first step should be to determine if a consensus can be reached as to what direction the USRA should take or what destination it should head for. Without a significant level of agreement on aims and goals, discussing the operational details is really just a waste of time IMO.

  8. #8
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    Is the USRA even a legal entity?

    Let's face it the USRA is what we choose to make it and the folks leading the way today could do anything they like.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

  9. #9
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    Mark,

    That's really a moot point. The USRA or any other small organization receives its "mandate" from the people who join and/or participate in its activities, not from some legal standing. When an organization ignore its own published rules and procedures, such actions always bring negative repercussions and usually reduced participation.

    If you conduct your raceway's business such that you don't do what you say you'll do, be it not opening the doors as advertised, shipping product later than promised, or charging more than listed prices, you know for a fact it isn't good for business and revenue growth, don't you? The same factors also apply to the USRA.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassy
    Mark,

    That's really a moot point. The USRA or any other small organization receives its "mandate" from the people who join and/or participate in its activities, not from some legal standing. When an organization ignore its own published rules and procedures, such actions always bring negative repercussions and usually reduced participation.

    If you conduct your raceway's business such that you don't do what you say you'll do, be it not opening the doors as advertised, shipping product later than promised, or charging more than listed prices, you know for a fact it isn't good for business and revenue growth, don't you? The same factors also apply to the USRA.


    Comparing a broken racing organization to a commercial business is IMHO comparing apples to eggs. Not even in the same realm.


    We are talking about fixing a broken organization here. If someone doesn't like things being improved for all involved. I'd have to question their personal motives/agenda.
    I don't think at this point anyone can make a valid argument against some drastic changes.
    Just look at how IRRA/D3 have taken off over the last 2 years, look at the attendance at various "National type" events . What was it 60+ can am cars in Ohio and there wasn't even a National title on the line.
    The USRA hasn't grown and less raceways if any are running USRA rules weekly in the same time period. How many raceways run IRRA or D3 weekly?

    Not sure if you noticed, but not everyone in Ohio was retro and there were (from what I saw) alot of past USRA racers there.


    If the current state of the USRA isn't considered a emergency, I don't know how they could call some of these other things emergencies.



    BTW, at the top of the page, I don't see a single Vote for keeping things the same.
    Last edited by mark g; 05-28-2009 at 01:04 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

  11. #11
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    Every year, for the last 8 years at least, we get the same bitchin' and moaning prior to the Nats.

    Will you guys ever get your act together?

    Other countries (and yes, New Zealand included) primarily base their rules on your rules
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  12. #12
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    Hey Zip!!!! havent talked to you since the flats in seattle years ago. Are you Zoolanders ready for some major changes? you are going to love what we've got planned......

    herman
    Scale guy


    (the term zoolander was meant to be funny and in no way meant to be demeaning or morally abusive)
    Last edited by topkat; 05-28-2009 at 02:22 PM.

  13. #13
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    Some of my fellow racers may faint if the changes are too great

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippity
    Every year, for the last 8 years at least, we get the same bitchin' and moaning prior to the Nats.

    Will you guys ever get your act together?

    Other countries (and yes, New Zealand included) primarily base their rules on your rules

    I don't think anyone's bitchin and moaning Zip. I read it as simple discussion. Which as i've stated before is how grown adults reach resolution
    with out discussion/communication I believe the whole world would fall apart

    So let's keep the positive discussion going. If you race slot cars and are a potential USRA racer. You should voice your opinion! It would seem the USRA is open to positive change and positive opinion. If we don't speak up, how would anyone know what people are willing to show up for.

    Mark
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Quit cryin and act like a MAN!!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark g
    Comparing a broken racing organization to a commercial business is IMHO comparing apples to eggs. Not even in the same realm.


    We are talking about fixing a broken organization here. If someone doesn't like things being improved for all involved. I'd have to question their personal motives/agenda.
    I don't think at this point anyone can make a valid argument against some drastic changes.
    Just look at how IRRA/D3 have taken off over the last 2 years, look at the attendance at various "National type" events . What was it 60+ can am cars in Ohio and there wasn't even a National title on the line.
    The USRA hasn't grown and less raceways if any are running USRA rules weekly in the same time period. How many raceways run IRRA or D3 weekly?

    Not sure if you noticed, but not everyone in Ohio was retro and there were (from what I saw) alot of past USRA racers there.


    If the current state of the USRA isn't considered a emergency, I don't know how they could call some of these other things emergencies.



    BTW, at the top of the page, I don't see a single Vote for keeping things the same.
    In regards to comparing a racing org to a business... yes there is similarities.... if you fail to deliver as promised..... less people will come to either.

    In regards to the Retro growth....... this comes from two things....

    One reason is how the organizations are run. D3 is a dictatorship...IRRA is run by a BOD. Both continue to grow under these concepts. Is one way better than the other?? I would lean towards a BOD working better as long as the BOD communicates well among themselves and gets things done. I think the IRRA board has done this rather well. The D3 Dictatorship has also worked well. I think in both cases, the one or ones in charge have looked at the "BIG" picture of things and how to make it work the fairest and best for everyone involved.

    Number two reason why retro is working well and growing is the motor formula's and the fact racers are not allowed to work on the motors making it easier on the competitors with less work to do to get ready for races and keeping costs under control.
    "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

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