2010 USRA Nationals 1/24 Eurosport at Chicks Hobbiz

**multiracer** · 04-18-2010, 06:38 AM

Besides small blocks, big blocks, fat arms, normal arms, long slender arms, long slender mini set up'

s...... what is a Gulliver ?

**fxgeorge** · 04-18-2010, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Monty@B.O.W.

Rocky,

I agree, something isn't right. The 1/32 cars went faster, and the top 6 went more laps, too. Chris ran more laps with the F1 car!

Can someone there explain? Cleaned the track? Big change in weather, or track power?

OK, looking in later, I see that this was a semis feeding a main scenario, so shorter heats. I beleive this is the only race all week using the format?

Hey guys, Sunday morning, just got out of my debriefing meeting with the team and short of sleep. Now reading the results of the races. The track was half a second slower on Friday than the rest of the week, it was a huge difference. Even on Thursday night when I made my final motor choice, I was running 3.9s easily. In practice Herman ran a 3.86 on yellow and I hit a 3.78 on orange....but that was a different day earlier in the week. Everybody who raced on Friday will agree that the track went away in a huge way, and my theory is that the weather became very humid on Friday. The raceway cleans with Coleman fuel to save money. We all had to race on the track, so it affected us all the same way. Like I said, I believe the huge shift in weather made the track really greasy. The tire stripes in every turn were speckled with mini marbles making grip go away.

**fxgeorge** · 04-18-2010, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by BSlotcar.com

surely they cant glue the track in between the heats. Looks like the 3.8 was a rider?

Yeah Brian, it was a rider.

**oldweirdherald** · 04-18-2010, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by multiracer

Besides small blocks, big blocks, fat arms, normal arms, long slender arms, long slender mini set up'

s...... what is a Gulliver ?

Yes - besides some gigantic guy traveling among the Yahoo's... what is a "Gulliver"???

Inquiring minds want to know!

Is it anything to do with Dr Verdo's "Nano" motors? (and if not - wassup with them?)

**Chris Radisich** · 04-18-2010, 12:12 PM

Hi Joel,

Thanks, I worked hard for that podium

I would, however, like to take just slight issue with your statement that:
"Just like the C Can arms, bigger looks like it just might be better"
To this highly biased observer, Herman's car with the radically small "Gulliver" motor looked to be the car to beat - making the top gutters a walk in the park and leading the main up until the incident that took him out.

Clearly the verdict is not yet in but notice was served that the Gullivers mean business...... at least on that track on that day. stay tuned

Sorry Joel, i should have clarified my statement. it was not meant as any comment on the Gulliver setups, as the first time I heard about or saw them was during the nats week, so i have no data on those.

My comments were in reference to what I had available to run, which was a range of arms from .470 to .500, and within those the best ones on this track were the bigger arms. For me they were just plain smoother than the smaller stuff I had.

Chris.

**camengeezer** · 04-18-2010, 01:52 PM

Ok, first of all, the name is somewhat misleading...... Gulliver is in his SMALL mode here (reference the land of Brobdingnag in "Gulliver's Travels") but who ever heard of a motor called BROBDINGNAG!!!?!

Gulliver is a .565 inside diameter can with the endbell tabs bent out to accomodate the standard 590 endbell. The armatures are currently .455 with air gap of 472 which yields a magnet thickness approximately equal to a 590 can with 495 air gap. Not exactly but close. The notion is to reduce motor weight and 'snappiness' without decreasing horsepower and it seems to be working nicely.

There may come a time when a smaller endbell is used to eliminate the tab bends but not today.

I will be posting photos and descriptions on my web site this evening. And btw...... Camen is going back into the armature business featuring our own version of an aluminum commutator.... I'll post details

**fxgeorge** · 04-18-2010, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by camengeezer

Ok, first of all, the name is somewhat misleading...... Gulliver is in his SMALL mode here (reference the land of Brobdingnag in "Gulliver's Travels") but who ever heard of a motor called BROBDINGNAG!!!?!

Gulliver is a .565 inside diameter can with the endbell tabs bent out to accomodate the standard 590 endbell. The armatures are currently .455 with air gap of 472 which yields a magnet thickness approximately equal to a 590 can with 495 air gap. Not exactly but close. The notion is to reduce motor weight and 'snappiness' without decreasing horsepower and it seems to be working nicely.

There may come a time when a smaller endbell is used to eliminate the tab bends but not today.

I will be posting photos and descriptions on my web site this evening. And btw...... Camen is going back into the armature business featuring our own version of an aluminum commutator.... I'll post details

I'm not too sure about Brobdingnag, but one thing I do know, this new motor is the real deal. I came within a hair of running it in 1/24 Eurosport, but liked my 1/32 Eurosport motor so much from the day before, I rebuilt it and it did a repeat performance. However, I did run the Gulliver prototype in 1/32 F1 as did Hermanator. It was fantastic in that class, too bad I thought the banana section was a straightaway and fell off 500 times during the race. Anyway, the original Gulliver is 10 mags, the set up is .455 tall, same as the arm diameter. Herm and I both ran 38T27 Gulliver arms with about 5 degrees timing. The new aluminum core comm is spectacular. We visited the Camen Industrial Complex on Saturday morning kind of on the way to Dulles International...well, maybe it was three hours out of the way....and we saw how complicated it is to make armatures. Yes, Camen is back and making great eurosport arms...and maybe more. I was going back and forth on Thursday night between a Gulliver Quad set up with a 95 and my 1/32 Eurosport motor. Here is a comparison photo:

and a comparison of a "small block" Valiko armature with a new Camen Gulliver arm.

Check Joel's website later for more details. They were selling fast at Chick's after the race!

**multiracer** · 04-18-2010, 04:44 PM

will the shafts be pre ground to 1.5mm or will the entire shaft become 1.5mm in the future ?

**camengeezer** · 04-18-2010, 05:58 PM

Yes, I intend to grind the shafts to 1.5 - no current plans to re-tool for 1.5 shafts

**multiracer** · 04-18-2010, 08:07 PM

Grinding shafts in the home workshop is always dicey at best. Great to hear you will be doing it in a controlled environment.

**dr verdo** · 04-19-2010, 08:58 AM

The worst track condition for ES24 racing that I have ever run on!

I don't know if it was the Coleman cleaner, the type of glue, the amount of glue, the weather or the combination.

The rubber on the turns looked dull and dry then when the cars came by the track rubber glistened and sounded like a paint roller going over tacky paint. It was enough to make you queezy.

Maybe Roger will be able to reproduce the track conditions for the 2010 ISRA Worlds.

**fxgeorge** · 04-19-2010, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by mazur50

Now time to thank Richard Mack for whom I have been doing months of testing at Slot Car Raceway, Rohnert Park, Calif, site of the 2006 and 2008 Scale Nats. I've tried some other chassis, but this remains the best in my opinion. Ditto for eurosport and the Bulldog for GT12.

The Richard Mack chassis preparation procedure:
Remove brown padded envelope from mailbox.
Open envelope.
Remove chassis
Install 2mm bearings
Install axle and gear
Install motor
Install rear tires
Install guide
Install leadwires
Put the body on
Go to raceway, hook up controller, put car on track
Start smiling when looking at the lap timer

Richard's chassis is just great right out of the envelope.

**dr verdo** · 04-19-2010, 12:04 PM

Mike and I saw the new Camen "Gulliver" setup in the counter but did not see any arms. We later realized that there were 2 arms still available and bought the both setups and arms. We built them out and went back to Chick's on Saturday after the Nats to test them out on the same conditions as on the ES24 race day.

We will begin testing these motors on the eurosportslotcar.com club track (Lee Gilbert's old MTT) which we know very well, under known conditions.

Once we compile the test data we will publish a detailed performance report comparing the current technology motors against the "Gulliver" and "Nano" small diameter motors.

Mike Stahl did an outstanding job in TQing in ES24 at Chick's (I think he was the second driver up to qualify) and will be test driver for the motor performance comparisons.

**Multiracer II** · 04-19-2010, 02:11 PM

The rubber on the turns looked dull and dry then when the cars came by the track rubber glistened and sounded like a paint roller going over tacky paint. It was enough to make you queezy.

SPEED RUBBER

**Jerry123** · 04-19-2010, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Multiracer II

The rubber on the turns looked dull and dry then when the cars came by the track rubber glistened and sounded like a paint roller going over tacky paint. It was enough to make you queezy.

SPEED RUBBER

Could have been...

I thought that Speed Rubber had a high wear rate though and there was no one that changed tires more than 1 time in the semi and twice in the main. Is there another tire out there made from a similar compound that does not wear as quickly? I read somewhere that UFRA rubber had similar characteristics to speed rubber but are longer lasting? Maybe someone or a few people were using them?