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Thread: Is there a chart or guideline to rewinding 1/24 scale slot car motors?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    79

    Is there a chart or guideline to rewinding 1/24 scale slot car motors?

    Hi guys,
    can you direct or instruct me on a chart or guideline on what type, size and length of wire to rewind an arm of the various classes? Thanks again.
    Alvin blair

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Wisconsin
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    917
    for most USRA classes they have a chart in the rule book telling you the gauge and number of turns.Just remember to check with where you are running if it is legal to ru a rewond arm.
    [COLOR="Black"]TEAM ACES AND 8's http://f2000.us/[/url]

  3. #3
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    Jun 2002
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    Wellington, New Zealand
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    My website has the following: http://zippitynz.com/Archive/ArmatureSpecs.htm


    Edit by "mom":
    that link wasn't working for me...
    but this link works:

    http://zippitynz.com/Archive/ArmatureSpecs.htm

    PK
    Last edited by Zippity; 10-01-2016 at 09:59 PM.
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  4. #4
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    Smile Nice

    Zippy very nice chart
    [COLOR="Black"]TEAM ACES AND 8's http://f2000.us/[/url]

  5. #5
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    The various USRA classes, other then "open" Group 7, are indeed restricted to "spec" armatures that not only consist of the specified guage and number of turns, but must be commercially manufactured with tags to guarantee that they comply with the specs.

    The art of hand-wound armatures has progressed to the point that unless you are doing it merely for the satisfaction of doing it yourself, it is otherwise impractical. The specialized components, procedures, materials, machinery, and equipment used to make armatures are simply not available to the home hobbyist, making it impractical, if not nearly impossible, to duplicate commercial quality armatures... (let alone illegal).

    Zippity's chart is indeed a nice resource and reference for comparison of various class armature specs... rather then a "cook book" for making your own.

    Much better to satisfy the creative urge with chassis building - an art that has been resurrected in Retro or D3 racing classes.
    Last edited by oldweirdherald; 07-25-2010 at 03:19 AM.
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    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  6. #6
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    Oct 2008
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    79
    Zippity, exactly what i needed. Thank you.

  7. #7
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    Belleville Mi. or the track
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    I didn't know there was guidelines for cheating.

  8. #8
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    Fall City, WA
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    1,364
    Quote Originally Posted by oldweirdherald View Post
    The various USRA classes, other then "open" Group 7, are indeed restricted to "spec" armatures that not only consist of the specified guage and number of turns, but must be commercially manufactured with tags to guarantee that they comply with the specs.

    The art of hand-wound armatures has progressed to the point that unless you are doing it merely for the satisfaction of doing it yourself, it is otherwise impractical. The specialized components, procedures, materials, machinery, and equipment used to make armatures are simply not available to the home hobbyist, making it impractical, if not nearly impossible, to duplicate commercial quality armatures... (let alone illegal).

    Zippity's chart is indeed a nice resource and reference for comparison of various class armature specs... rather then a "cook book" for making your own.

    Much better to satisfy the creative urge with chassis building - an art that has been resurrected in Retro or D3 racing classes.
    Paul,

    I disagree. The tools and blanks are readily available. Granted many rules basically don't allow home wound armatures for all but Drag motors, G7 and Eurosport. But winding arms is still done by many people and you can actually buy the commutators and blanks very easily. In fact, I will be one of the ones trying to wind my own Euro arms in the future. I just need to pick up some high temp silver brazing solder and I'll be set. I have everything else I need. I won't be doing Grp 10 or 12 arms, but Euro arms are another story. Besides, all those old Falcon 7 arms make perfect project arms for winding your own motors. Just put on a good comm and you are ready to wind.

    For some nice arm blanks and commutators send a PM to wbugenis.
    Gary Johnson

  9. #9
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    Jun 2002
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    NorthWesterner now in Philippines
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    Hi Gary,

    We don't necessarily disagree... but you somewhat clarify my point.

    I mainly wanted to point out that for the Group or "spec" arms - hand winding is not legal for "spec" racing classes.

    For the AVERAGE or newbee hobbyist - hand winding may be impractical, as the components are not READILY available... however, for a more advanced or adventurist do-it-yourself-er like yourself... then I would have to stand corrected - anything is possible!

    For somebody experimenting with winding their own armatures - then expired Falcon motors would be an excellent idea! Every track that uses them should have plenty of used Falcons, ready to be rescued from the dumpster. The main component that wears out is the leaf spring brushes, then would be the commutator.

    Here's a direct link to an old article on OWH by Larry Shephard - "Cheetah on Steroids" - which explains how to put a rebuildable "C" can endbell and brushes on a Cheetah, Fox, or Falcon type motor.

    http://www.oldweirdherald.com/techtips/cheetah/

    Combine this endbell with a hand wound armature, and someone could indeed have some fun making some fast little project motors.

    I do hope that nobody is toying with the idea of trying to sneak rewound motors into Falcon or Group "spec" motor classes... however.

    (I often tend to forget that there are MANY tinkerers out there who really don't care about rules or classes or organized racing - they just love to BUILD!)
    Last edited by oldweirdherald; 07-25-2010 at 03:47 PM.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    St Charles, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    2,330
    I think there may be a small but substantial "hot vintage wind" market for the good old 13D/16D and relic cans out there. I know Rewinder has GLOBE armatures ready to ship... now the current S16D wind is a hot setup for 36D's.....
    l.d. kelley, M.A. Ramcatlarry@aol.com

    60 year pin 1959-2019
    Racing slot cars in America
    USRA 2019 member
    IRRA, ISRA/USA, Hardbodies 1/24 &
    1/32 - Great Lakes Slot Car Club
    retired raceway owner 1992-2007
    Omni/Cidex service center

  11. #11
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    Jul 2003
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    Sophia, N.C
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    17
    Anyone know of Hawk, and Hawk 7 armature specs....wire size, turns...dia...???

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    NH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearBear View Post
    Paul,

    I disagree. The tools and blanks are readily available. Granted many rules basically don't allow home wound armatures for all but Drag motors, G7 and Eurosport. But winding arms is still done by many people and you can actually buy the commutators and blanks very easily. In fact, I will be one of the ones trying to wind my own Euro arms in the future. I just need to pick up some high temp silver brazing solder and I'll be set. I have everything else I need. I won't be doing Grp 10 or 12 arms, but Euro arms are another story. Besides, all those old Falcon 7 arms make perfect project arms for winding your own motors. Just put on a good comm and you are ready to wind.

    For some nice arm blanks and commutators send a PM to wbugenis.
    I just got some blanks and coms from Bill, and they are first class !! Anyone looking to rewind should get a hold of him. He has many different size blanks all pre-coated and ready to go.
    However, Paul does have a valid point,it's not a cheep venture. Good epoxy is very hard to find, as well as very expensive. It also only has a shelf life of around 4-6 months. So it's best to find someone to go in half's with you on it. I,m just getting into it myself, and have been gathering up everything to get me started. I have no reason, other than the fact that I just want to try my hand at it. I guess it's like scratch building your own chassis or motors, you just seem to take much more pride in it, not to mention that it can be a heck of alot of fun.

    Vic
    Keep your finger on the trigger ,and your eye on the slot

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    32
    I use to take the parma super 16 d ( 502 motor )arms and rewind them and it takes a lot of patience and practice.its all about the way you hold it and keeping tension on the wire while you turn it. these arms are originally made in china and the specs are 60 turns of 28 guage epoxy coated magnet wire. i would put the arm in a toaster oven for 10 minutes at 130 degrees to heat up the old wind so it could be unwound for fresh new bigger wire. next step is to take an exacto knife and scrape off the stacks best you can of all the old epoxy glue that came off the old wind that stuck to the stacks. you can now use this arm for a rewind but you must use epoxy coated wire. 55 turns of 27.5 guage wire works fantastic IF YOU CAN FIND IT. YOU CANT JUST WIND AN ARM AND PUT IT IN A SETUP AND EXPECT IT TO WORK. after you wind an arm the FINISH WORK must be done before you can use it. first its heated to a specific temp to bond the magnet wire together and to the stacks on the arm.some arms are put in vacuum chambers after heating to suck the epoxy into the arm. this is not done with all arms only high performance CNC wound, not chinese S-16 d, hawks,falcons,plafits or lots of other chinese crap. different epoxy coated wire bonds at different temps. once its bonded then trued and balanced. then its ready to go. an unbalanced arm will heat up and last about 30 seconds on the track.you can do the bonding in your own oven and if you have a comm lathe you can true it yourself too but balancing is something best left up to Alpha or Proslot they have computer balancing machines. i have placed arms on two razors standing vertical to hand balance but its nothing like a good proper CNC computer balance machine. back in 94 i use to manage a raceway in redding ca called B&B raceway and i was doing a lot of rewinds back then. i was sending them to a guy named Denny at Proslot and he was doing the finish work for a small fee for each arm. different amounts of turns on a stack using different guages of magnet wire are going to give different results. the combination 55 turns of 27.5 guage epoxy coated bonding wire on a super 16 blank will give the best results. LOTS OF PUNCH ,TOP END AND BRAKES. if your gonna cheat in group 10 this is the arm to use. THIS ARM IS GUARANTEED TO GO 2 TO THREE TENTHS OF A SECOND FASTER THAN THE FASTEST SUPER 16 YOU EVER PURCHASED RETAIL. IF YOU CHEAT WITH IT YOU WILL BE SUSPICIOUS AND WILL PROBABLY GET TORN DOWN.
    NOTE... bonding magnet wire in small guages on small spools are very expensive and hard to get

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    32

    Just for kicks

    If you have the patience and time because winding arms takes lots of both this is is a fun thing to do for kicks not to cheat

  15. #15
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    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,938
    I haven't heard of bonding magnet wire you mentioned. Most rewinders I know use heavy polymide enamel coated magnet wire rated at 220 C to wind the arm. Planet Engineers carry it in many gauges, including the finer gauges. After winding an arm, it is coated with a high temperature epoxy.
    I like long walks, especially when they're taken by people who annoy me.

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