.

.

Thread: Slot Car Racer Today

  1. #2626
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin Brian View Post
    I don't know I'm a serious motor builder yet but with resourses being limited I will use the wedges. I have some .155 magnets I test fitted them in my Cahoosa setup and it was .555. I can buy 1 hone to gat started I was thinking about .565 or a .570 to start? I have a Koford feather fred honed for me and I have a .540 contender in it and I will try at our local race next thursday. I should have ran it at the NORCAL race but It didnt sound that good then I played with it last week and it came too life It sounded way better then the motor I raced at NORCAL!
    One thought I had, Brian, about those wedgies is that you'd probably have to really jam those suckers in there very tight because as the glue cures in the oven, I'm sure the magnets will shift a bit. This is why I use the Skinner glue and do the 15 minutes at low temperature, then pull the set up and readjust the magnets if needed....then this is followed by 25 minutes at 350*. I would be concerned about the wedgies just falling apart once the magnets move a little. As for honing, I should have thought of that in the first place, probably Fred (of Fresno) will do honing for you!
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  2. #2627
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by GearBear View Post
    Wow, .565"? Seems big. I use .560" and I think George does too. I tried a .555" and it just wasn't right. I might have to get a .565" hone and try it on one of my motors. I got by with just a .560" hone for quite a while before I broke down and got the hones in between. As George stated, do your honing under running water and go slow with light pressure. Yes it will wear out the hone faster but it does work.

    I picked up a set of those wedges at the Nats when I saw Frank had a set in the case. I think I'll be trying them out soon as I have a couple of motors that need the magnets redone as they came loose on me.

    There is no way I would use one of those floppy Koford cans unless it was for qualifying only. The one I have is so soft it deforms just looking at it. I do have one of the thicker ones in my Box 12 car and it was a missile and seems much stronger as well.

    Hey George, you have a Unimat, why not make your own slugs? Your local Lowes should have 5/8" and 3/4" steel bar stock 3' long for less than $10. Hack a piece off and turn it to size on the Unimat. Yeah, it'll be slow going, but it will do the job.

    Like George, I really like the Cahoza setups. What I'm not liking about them is the end bell hardware. I really wish Cahoza offered up copper hardware. I would switch all my motors to that in a heartbeat! The plated aluminum is just too brittle and the vibrations of racing causes the negative side to break after a few races. My best S16C motor broke at the Nats and it only had 3 races on the hardware! Sheesh! I have old motors with Proslot endbells using the copper hardware that have hundreds of races on them. Besides, good clean copper is a far better conductor than the plated aluminum will ever be!

    Gary, if you get the .565" and try it, let us know how you like it. I feel the .560" is fine, but you never know what .005" will do!
    Again, looking forward to a "review" of the wedgies Gary.
    I'm gonna drive down to the metals place by the Oakland Airport, I'm sure they will have some aluminum rod stock. I'd prefer aluminum because it will not take forever to cut!!
    Gary, most of my Cahoza set ups have the copper Pro Slot hardware! It's USRA legal to do so, and I would think for sure it would be fine for AMCA. I reported many problems with that stock Cahoza endbell hardware some time ago on this blog. The brushes seize up and I think the brushes also kind of stick to the aluminum. I agree, it is the only bad thing about the Cahoza product. Even that fancy gold plated hardware is still aluminum (and not USRA legal). I've been happy with the PS hoods. Jim might have them, you can order a set of hoods and plates only, no need to get the package with spring cups and screws.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  3. #2628
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Last night was very touching and dear, I presided over two marriage ceremonies. Two eurosport arms got married to two eurosport set ups. There was quite a bit of dating before the marriages though. First the 94.5 dated the Voki 18 mag set up and pulled 6 amps and would not go any lower. I decided to counsel them and said it would be better to call off the relationship before they got too used to eachother....it would have been an unhappy relationship. Then I put the 84.5 in the Voki 18 mag....same result. I ran the 94.5 at the Nats and it was spectacular, so not sure why the high amp draw....I really prefer 5 amps max. Anyway, I decided to cut and run with the 84.5 also...no need in making these parts unhappy. Then I got out the 22t24.5 and put it in that 18 mag and hurray, just under 5 amps of draw. I married them on the spot, threw some rice, put it in a box and on the shelf like most marriages.

    Next I took that same 94.5 and put it into the Owl 20 (Al Chuck 20 mag). Bingo! Good amp draw. It was love at first sight. They got married, in the box and without further counselling on the shelf (ready for The Flats). Tonight I'm going to try the 84.5 in one of my Owl 12s and see how they get along.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  4. #2629
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    804
    So far I have not had problems with the magnets moving during the curing process and yes you do have to make sure the wedges are pressed tightly in place before the curing begins. Keep in mind that they are aluminum and they will also swell slightly and in doing so will increase the pressure against the magnets. I have never really had a problem using the Koford cans in my Box 12 motors so there should be no problem in my flat track motors. I also use Red Fox cans. I just can't see spending $20+ for a bare can, to each his own though. I also use the copper PS hardware and keep it clean and shiney using Nevr-Dul, it cleans and shines the hardware without removing any metal. Use to use loads of that stuff in my Navy days to keep my engineroom copper and brass nice and shiney.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  5. #2630
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    Freddy,

    I don't spend the $20 for a bare can on the Cahoza's. I buy the $34 setups instead. I've had good luck with them (other than the end bell hardware).

    George,

    I actually have some of the Proslot hardware in my box that I was going to use on some of my old RedFox can's. But I might repurpose them for the Cahoza setup's that have the broken tabs (I had 2 of them break at the Nats).

    Interesting thoughts on the high amp draw George. I always thought that if you don't have any drag on the motor the higher the amp draw the better the motor. I really need to get my dyno working again and start looking at that a little closer.
    Gary Johnson

  6. #2631
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    270
    A stupid question.
    How do you hone the magnets?
    Magnetic dust on everything!!!!

  7. #2632
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Everett, Wa.
    Posts
    520
    George:
    For any given Apples to Apples comparison - C can/X12 as an example - can setup/armature combo at a SET voltage , the lower the amps the more "efficient" ARM in that can setup . If you put a fixed drag onto the free running motor it will drop in rpm (so will the voltage). At this fixed drag, returning to the original voltage you will see an increase in amp draw.
    Somewhat analagous to an Internal Comb Eng - Volts => RPM, Amps => Torque, Volts * Amps = Watts (Power)
    RPM * Torque = HP, with the appropriate conversion factors left out. In a car putting on the brake (adding drag) at a 2000 RPM Cruise requires opening the throttle to get back to 2000 RPM Cruise. This now generates more Torque (amps) at 2000 RPM to overcome the braking load. This increased power in both systems, Electrical - more Watts and Heat, Mechanical - more Gas and Heat.
    The magnets have a fixed amount of energy in them, you want as much as possible available to be converted via the armature to create shaft output power, not overcome parasitic losses in the motor.
    Hope that helps your visualization.

    Guy
    Guy Middleton
    Everything I was taught in Engineering school I had already learned from slot cars....

  8. #2633
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,201
    Scr and Gearbear you guys will love the wedges I have not had any magnets move since I've been using them. They are by far the best way to set mags IMHO.Just order 2 more pair hate having to wait while 1 can is baking.
    I've also read a lot of post with problems with the chaozza hardware but haven't experienced it myself don't like the hardware that comes on the production motor. I use the gold plated that looks just like the production hardware with out any problems .The proslot copper is very good hardware use that on most other motors.
    When i start building for then Nats I will be using the proslot hardware.
    Motors By Mic B
    Balance By PoppaPower
    A Clean Slot Car is a Happy Slot Car
    Garden State ISRA Club Home of the Anaconda
    Tires by the Hermanator
    www.TheISrausa.com

  9. #2634
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,495
    Quote Originally Posted by dante View Post
    A stupid question.
    How do you hone the magnets?
    Magnetic dust on everything!!!!
    Douse your magnets with copius quantities of that blue braid juice stuff when honing. (a tip given to me by Roger from Chicago)

    When you have finished honing, rinse the magnets and the can under running water and clean, clean, clean

    I use magnet putty to grab any remaining bits of magnets.
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  10. #2635
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    Dante,

    When honing the magnets under a stream of running water there is very little magnet dust to worry about when done. After honing I use my high pressure air hose and then finish up with motor putty (in my case a kneaded eraser from the drafting store, but "Silly Putty" works too).

    Mic,

    The negative wire "post" is what breaks off. If you look, there is very little metal underneath the bend of the post. If Cahoza were to thicken this area by moving the bend more towards the positive post and made the post shorter, they could solve the issue IMHO. They just don't leave enough meat. So if you have movement of the wires from the guide turning, the post will eventually break. Maybe adding a short piece of heat shrink tubing right by the motor would help alleviate this issue. I think George has it right and just switch to Proslot's copper hardware. The copper is more malleable than the aluminum and I think they have more meat in this critical location.
    Gary Johnson

  11. #2636
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,201
    Gary had that happen to 1 motor from a buddy I build for it was the production hardware .haven't had that with the hardware i use but don't think its Usra Legal. George was having problems with brushes hanging up. I cut a small slit in the hood on the post side for a little more spring travel I found after 1 race the springs would hang on the hood but since them I've had no problems . Again I don't use that production hardware on my motors and I try to replace it when I can for the motors I build for others. I agree with George the Proslot is the way to go if your having problems.I will have to take a closer look at the gold plated harware I use its not the hardware with the extra heat sink. So i believe its Usra legal.
    Motors By Mic B
    Balance By PoppaPower
    A Clean Slot Car is a Happy Slot Car
    Garden State ISRA Club Home of the Anaconda
    Tires by the Hermanator
    www.TheISrausa.com

  12. #2637
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by GearBear View Post
    Interesting thoughts on the high amp draw George. I always thought that if you don't have any drag on the motor the higher the amp draw the better the motor. I really need to get my dyno working again and start looking at that a little closer.
    Gary, on a 1/24 ES motor, I generally find amp draw of 4-5 amps works well. Any more than that I don't want because it'll get too hot, and we run 40 minute races.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  13. #2638
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippity View Post
    Douse your magnets with copius quantities of that blue braid juice stuff when honing. (a tip given to me by Roger from Chicago)

    When you have finished honing, rinse the magnets and the can under running water and clean, clean, clean

    I use magnet putty to grab any remaining bits of magnets.
    Zipp, you can buy tons of the blue braid juice, but the cost of water is quite a bit less. Also, to remove the excess magnet dust, I just use my garden hose with a high pressure nozzle and blast it. Comes out really clean. Joel of Camen uses compressed air. I stopped wasting my time with putty a long time ago and went to the water blast method of cleaning.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  14. #2639
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic Byrd View Post
    Scr and Gearbear you guys will love the wedges I have not had any magnets move since I've been using them. They are by far the best way to set mags IMHO.Just order 2 more pair hate having to wait while 1 can is baking.
    I've also read a lot of post with problems with the chaozza hardware but haven't experienced it myself don't like the hardware that comes on the production motor. I use the gold plated that looks just like the production hardware with out any problems .The proslot copper is very good hardware use that on most other motors.
    When i start building for then Nats I will be using the proslot hardware.
    Mic, the hardware I believe GB and I are referring to is the "production" hardware, not the gold plated stuff. Yes, the gold plated hardware is really nice. The "production" hardware is aluminum and much smaller than a BF II brush in size. I think if you hone the hardware with a diamond hood tool, you'll knock off the plating exposing sticky aluminum material (as in, the brush will stick to it). You can file down the sides of the brushes and make them smaller. I don't like that. So, this is why I just use the Pro Slot copper hoods, you can hone them out and use full sized brushes. I think I like the PS copper even better than the gold plated hoods....besides, they are not legal for USRA as they are not part of a production motor.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  15. #2640
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by MentalKase View Post
    George:
    For any given Apples to Apples comparison - C can/X12 as an example - can setup/armature combo at a SET voltage , the lower the amps the more "efficient" ARM in that can setup . If you put a fixed drag onto the free running motor it will drop in rpm (so will the voltage). At this fixed drag, returning to the original voltage you will see an increase in amp draw.
    Somewhat analagous to an Internal Comb Eng - Volts => RPM, Amps => Torque, Volts * Amps = Watts (Power)
    RPM * Torque = HP, with the appropriate conversion factors left out. In a car putting on the brake (adding drag) at a 2000 RPM Cruise requires opening the throttle to get back to 2000 RPM Cruise. This now generates more Torque (amps) at 2000 RPM to overcome the braking load. This increased power in both systems, Electrical - more Watts and Heat, Mechanical - more Gas and Heat.
    The magnets have a fixed amount of energy in them, you want as much as possible available to be converted via the armature to create shaft output power, not overcome parasitic losses in the motor.
    Hope that helps your visualization.

    Guy
    Thanks for that engineering perspective. Unfortunately, I don't understand it cuz I went to music school. What I do understand is if my motor draws more amps than normal, it will get too hot. Normal for a 1/24 ES motor, I repeat, is around 4-5 amps. The 6+ amps I was getting with the 94.5 in the 18 mag Voki was just too much, and it was generating way too much heat. A lesser wind, the 22t24.5 got me into a normal amp draw range. I don't know why the amp draw was so high, but I suspect it was too big a wind in too big a set up. The Voki 18 mag is a massive eurosport set up, it's a full .480T X .300L magnet area, and the can is pretty stout....I think quite a bit of gauss. My Owl 20 is a .450T set up in a Camen can which is lighter. Putting the 94.5 in the Owl 20 worked great for amp draw....got down more in the 5 amp area. As with most motor building, I find that the more time I spend just fiddling around with them until they work right, the better. Requires patience and ability to stay with a tedious task for hours.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •