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Thread: Slot Car Racer Today

  1. #2866
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    806
    I've got a question for George and anyone who monitors this thread and runs the PROSLOT Contender .540 dia. 45 degree arms.

    What is the measurement between the north and south magnet tips? Do you have a problem when you stop the motor it will not start again without you manually turning it? In other words it is shorted between the brushes. I think it's because the distance between the magnet tips are too far apart. I use Camen magnets in Red Fox setups and the measurement between the tips are approx .295-.300. This works fine with Bow Contender arms but gives me fits when I use the Proslot Contender arms in the same setups. I think the gap needs to be narrower for the PS arms or it will become necessary to use vertical brushes to prevent the brush shorting. Thank you Fred
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  2. #2867
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cleveland, TN
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Freddie View Post
    I've got a question for George and anyone who monitors this thread and runs the PROSLOT Contender .540 dia. 45 degree arms.

    What is the measurement between the north and south magnet tips? Do you have a problem when you stop the motor it will not start again without you manually turning it? In other words it is shorted between the brushes. I think it's because the distance between the magnet tips are too far apart. I use Camen magnets in Red Fox setups and the measurement between the tips are approx .295-.300. This works fine with Bow Contender arms but gives me fits when I use the Proslot Contender arms in the same setups. I think the gap needs to be narrower for the PS arms or it will become necessary to use vertical brushes to prevent the brush shorting. Thank you Fred
    Check the index as that has been discussed here at least twice.
    Alan Ingram

  3. #2868
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Good God I did a lot of building today. And I have all day tomorrow for more. Today I got my two Castricone chassis built up and ready to go, the 1/24 ES and the 1/32 ES. Then assembled 10 C Can motors. Justin's Dad Mike wanted to know if I am going to shunt the motors for The Flat Track Worlds. I only shunted a couple of Super 16C motors, but otherwise the G12 motors no shunts. Both CRASH CODGER and I believe they are not really necessary. Now, I'm sure this is going to create several pages of discussion. But, at the Scale Nats this year, I just ran one of my NORCAL legal GT12 cars with a JK BMW body on it. Nothing special, no stinkin' shunts, and it was plenty fast....
    1 - Paul Gawronski - 3.714
    2 - Greg Gilbert - 3.765
    3 - Herman James - 3.769
    4 - George Russell - 3.790
    5 - Chris Radisich - 3.869
    6 - Gary Johnson - 3.958
    7 - Roy Hood - 4.010
    8 - Donn Raburn - 4.046

    I'll just keep my stuff ready for the NORCAL season starting in September, that's one of the most successful race series in the country that will be touring Northern California raceways for eight months.

    Anyway, besides the above stuff, also built up my favorite 1/32 ES motor and put it in its favorite chassis, my 2009 Horky.

    Even managed to get the beagles out for their two mile walk today. OK, better go do the dishes now.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  4. #2869
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Freddie View Post
    I've got a question for George and anyone who monitors this thread and runs the PROSLOT Contender .540 dia. 45 degree arms.

    What is the measurement between the north and south magnet tips? Do you have a problem when you stop the motor it will not start again without you manually turning it? In other words it is shorted between the brushes. I think it's because the distance between the magnet tips are too far apart. I use Camen magnets in Red Fox setups and the measurement between the tips are approx .295-.300. This works fine with Bow Contender arms but gives me fits when I use the Proslot Contender arms in the same setups. I think the gap needs to be narrower for the PS arms or it will become necessary to use vertical brushes to prevent the brush shorting. Thank you Fred
    Hi Fred. I do seem to remember you brought this up sometime earlier this year, and I wish I could tell you what is wrong. Interesting that the BOW arms work, but the PS do not....i.e., you get the dreaded Push Start Syndrome (P.S.S.) The 10 C Can motors I put back together today all had PS arms, a mix of 12s, SWs, Contenders, S16Cs and they all started by themselves. I think perhaps they were sufficiently intimidated by the knowledge some of their buddies were now sitting in the infamous "junk box" along with other detritus. I'm sorry to say that I am not much of an expert with electric motor theory, nor do I understand why things happen the way they do sometimes. But, I have never forgotten what my Mom, may she rest in peace, said to me when I was a kid and having trouble solving a math problem in homework. She'd tell me to take a break from it and it will come to me later. I've applied that advice to myself when I am getting stale with my slotcar building, and I also apply it to some motor combinations. If it doesn't work, I will certainly bang my head against the wall with it for a while, but I have learned more and more to just put the stuff that doesn't want to work away in the junk box.

    I have mentioned this before that from time to time I go back to the junk box and rummage around and find stuff. Then I try it out and it sometimes it works and I wonder why it was in that box, but sometimes it does not work and then I know why I found it in there. There's one thing I can say about myself, I'm not afraid to sit at the bench for hours going through the tedious work of putting arms in set ups, breaking them in and then figuring out if they are going to be worth testing. Usually they are, but sometimes they end up in the J.B. perhaps with P.S.S. I don't know much about theory, but I just keep my wrench twirling.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  5. #2870
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,201
    Fred
    Measured 4 arms 2 bow 12 and 2 proslot 12 Thinking the proslot had a smaller stack width . the proslot are bigger by .008 stacks measured in direction of rotation. I have not seen this problem with any motors I have built but have seen a few other racers with it the only thing I come up with is timing if you have a timing gauge I would start there. My thoughts are that the problem arms are over timed firing the stack to early. But it could just be a little slot car mystery that has no answer. The atom arms have the smallest stack width and have had no problems with them either. Bow arms I have gone as high as 48* proslot no higher then 45*.
    Motors By Mic B
    Balance By PoppaPower
    A Clean Slot Car is a Happy Slot Car
    Garden State ISRA Club Home of the Anaconda
    Tires by the Hermanator
    www.TheISrausa.com

  6. #2871
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    806
    George- your right, we have discussed this before, but for me as probably many other racers the problem still exists. I was just asking for a north/south tip measurement just to see if going with a smaller gap or larger gap would improve the problem. I know that narrowing the brushes or even using vertical brushes will most likely cure the problem but that would mean that those arms would have dedicated setups and I couldn't do what I normally do which is check the performance of different arms in different setups. I may start off by just narrowing the brushes. That may end up being the cure.

    Mic-I have no problems with my BOW arms. Both the 12s and Contenders work fine in the same setups that the PS arms won't work in and they have the same timing 45*. However, where you say that your PS stacks are bigger by .008 the PS arms I have are bigger by .020. I'm just looking for a compatable gap that will cure the problem. Should it be wider or narrower? I have some short tip magnets that I may try but that will still mean that I have dedicated setups just for these two arms. Maybe that's just the way it'll have to be. I'm going to try a few things this week since the heatwave is due to end. I'll let everyone what I come up with. Thanks guys for the input. Fred
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  7. #2872
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,201
    Fred I understand it wasn't the bow arms with the problems. I was just looking at stack width as possible cause. Bow arms if it says 45 degrees its probably dead on with that said production arm i'm sure vary some what that's what i was getting at with checking the timing.Now larger electric motors i've worked with if the motor stopped at a certain spot and wouldn't start it was usually a shorted wind but they where ac motors and a lot larger then what we're working with.There 1 more thing I just thought of is the com segment spacing there are some comms i've seen that the segments are not equal size again production cut and production machines sometimes go out and pieces that are not cut to spec get shipped and used. back in the mid 70's that was 1 of the things you tried to check before you brought an arm.
    Motors By Mic B
    Balance By PoppaPower
    A Clean Slot Car is a Happy Slot Car
    Garden State ISRA Club Home of the Anaconda
    Tires by the Hermanator
    www.TheISrausa.com

  8. #2873
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    I had a box full of cars to try out yesterday at Slot Car Raceway, Rohnert Park, Calif. It was a beautiful day in Northern California and I arrived at the raceway around 2:00. Frank and Vegas were present.

    All my cars are prepped and ready to go for the Flat Track Worlds this Saturday. First I ran my PNW/AMCA Group 10 class. I had three cars to try, and no surprise the best was the same thing I ran at The Nats in the USRA GTP class. PNW/AMCA=USRA GTP. That's a math lesson with no numbers. Got the good car down to 3.75 and pulled it off before I destroyed it.

    Next, the GT12s. First was the car I ran a few weeks ago and did kind of badly on a Saturday night race. I worked on it a lot, took the chassis all apart, gave it new rails and added the front wing weights. Yesterday put it on the track and the 3rd lap was a 3.62 so I pulled it off before I destroyed it. Protodog 3 was not doing well, it will need the same full tear down. The other Bulldog 3 handled really nicely, just needed more power. It might end up being a better car than the first car once it has some ponies.

    It was then time to pull out the big guns starting with the Castricone 1/24 Eurosport. Put a freshly refurbished Owl 20 with PK 19t25 in it, and the chassis had been totally disassembled, straightened, then reassembled. Nice fresh car. Ran beautifully, very smooth. Got it down to 3.14 so I pulled it off before I destroyed it. Next was the car I was most excited about, only a few hours before I had removed a brand new Horky from its plastic bag and heard the release of Czech atmosphere into the slot room....kind of smelled like machine oil mixed with cigarette smoke, weird odor. Anyway, I put my Nats motor in it, that's a Voki 18 mag with Pro Slot 94-1/2 arm freshly balanced by Beuf. I can only describe this car with three letters: OMG. The tires were absolute wagon wheels, Proformance donuts on brand new Hermanator hubs measuring .675", so I had .042" clearance. It took about 8 laps to get to a 3.11, so I pulled it off before I destroyed it. Last one to try was the old Horky with the Voki 10 mag, Valiko 84.5. Car also had wagon wheels, a different rubber, and it didn't work very well. Not the right tires, and I think the motor needs to go into the Castricone and the Castricone motor into Old Horky.

    Finally, trialed the two 1/32 ES cars starting with the 2009 Horky. It has the usual motor in it, Camen single mag small block and Valiko 23t25. I ran this motor in the final main at the Nats for 3rd place, but for qualifying and the semi main I had run the Camen .455T with PK 23t25 because it was more smooth and hooked up better. I may need to switch motors around up on The Twister. The Castricone AKA "Baby Piero" ran really well, it had the .455T PK motor in it, but the motor went flat, kind of like it hit a wall and couldn't wind up fully. It ran really fast lap times though due the fact I could just about punch it around the track, really driveable. That was the last car to test.

    When I got home, I pulled apart that motor and I think I found the problem, the comm was spaced too far into the endbell so the back of the brushes were off the comm almost touching the edge of the winds. There were some spacing issues, so I removed the flanged can bearing and replaced it with a new flangeless endbell bearing so I could get the arm further back in the set up. That centered the comm nicely in the brush area. Trued the comm and installed fresh brushes. We'll give it a try up in Seattle on Thursday afternoon.

    Congratulations to Justin Colvin for winning the Firecracker 400 at The Raceway Which Shall Not Be Named. Good drive Justin!
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  9. #2874
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    I spent much of Friday night and Saturday working on cars for the upcoming Flats. Friday night was spent getting Chris Kendrick's cars ready. I pulled his LMP and Group 10 cars apart and straightened the chassis. He had given me new pans to use but I was able to get the cars nice and flat without having to use the new pans. They were in pretty good condition to start with. His Dub powered Group 10 sounds wicked! Then on Saturday I moved on to getting his new Mack Bulldog 3 GT12 setup.

    Once I was done mounting all his new bodies, it was time to start tearing my cars apart and getting them ready. I pulled the motors out of my two Group 10's, and three GT12's. Then pulled out parts for 5 more C-Can motors. Then I got down to the business of rebuilding/assembling motors. I now have several motors waiting for shunt wires 6 chassis waiting to be gone over with a magnifying glass to make sure they are race ready, and several bodies that are ready to be mounted up. I still have 3 bodies to paint too. It is going to be a busy week!
    Gary Johnson

  10. #2875
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Boise, ID.
    Posts
    498
    Quote Originally Posted by GearBear View Post
    I spent much of Friday night and Saturday working on cars for the upcoming Flats. Friday night was spent getting Chris Kendrick's cars ready. I pulled his LMP and Group 10 cars apart and straightened the chassis. He had given me new pans to use but I was able to get the cars nice and flat without having to use the new pans. They were in pretty good condition to start with. His Dub powered Group 10 sounds wicked! Then on Saturday I moved on to getting his new Mack Bulldog 3 GT12 setup.

    Once I was done mounting all his new bodies, it was time to start tearing my cars apart and getting them ready. I pulled the motors out of my two Group 10's, and three GT12's. Then pulled out parts for 5 more C-Can motors. Then I got down to the business of rebuilding/assembling motors. I now have several motors waiting for shunt wires 6 chassis waiting to be gone over with a magnifying glass to make sure they are race ready, and several bodies that are ready to be mounted up. I still have 3 bodies to paint too. It is going to be a busy week!
    good to hear that Dub motor sounds so good....... I gave up my arm for that motor since Dub was out of arms and needed one real quick.. was assured I would have another before the flats...... it you look at the arm it is engraved with "Bone" on one of the stacks...just hope my gtp motor sounds as good when it gets done..... see ya friday for sure....
    Jim Dalton
    Bone Bodies

    ISCC
    Dub Motors
    PMP Chassis
    3rd Eye controllers
    jd102454@yahoo.com

  11. #2876
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    I did see that Jim. I thought it curious! I really need to start marking my arms before sending them off for balance so I can keep track of the "good ones"
    Gary Johnson

  12. #2877
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    421
    No worries Bone, your motor will be great

    Well back to work, got a bunch to get done before we leave Thursday
    "Dub" Wade
    Nampa, ID
    208-392-0639
    dustynwade@ymail.com
    Dub Motors, Dub Rides, Dub Winged bodies, PMP Chassis, Paint by Odie, Bone Bodies.
    Of course Balance by Beuf
    3rd Eye Controllers

  13. #2878
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by GearBear View Post
    I spent much of Friday night and Saturday working on cars for the upcoming Flats. Friday night was spent getting Chris Kendrick's cars ready. I pulled his LMP and Group 10 cars apart and straightened the chassis. He had given me new pans to use but I was able to get the cars nice and flat without having to use the new pans. They were in pretty good condition to start with. His Dub powered Group 10 sounds wicked! Then on Saturday I moved on to getting his new Mack Bulldog 3 GT12 setup.

    Once I was done mounting all his new bodies, it was time to start tearing my cars apart and getting them ready. I pulled the motors out of my two Group 10's, and three GT12's. Then pulled out parts for 5 more C-Can motors. Then I got down to the business of rebuilding/assembling motors. I now have several motors waiting for shunt wires 6 chassis waiting to be gone over with a magnifying glass to make sure they are race ready, and several bodies that are ready to be mounted up. I still have 3 bodies to paint too. It is going to be a busy week!
    Gary,
    What did you happen to gear the S16C for Chris? Hopefully the final drive is about as low as you can get it Should work the best that way, same for his GT12
    "Dub" Wade
    Nampa, ID
    208-392-0639
    dustynwade@ymail.com
    Dub Motors, Dub Rides, Dub Winged bodies, PMP Chassis, Paint by Odie, Bone Bodies.
    Of course Balance by Beuf
    3rd Eye Controllers

  14. #2879
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    photo-48
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  15. #2880
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Roseville, CA
    Posts
    146
    I'd take that box and it's contents.... just sayin'. Have a good time up there Slotcar Racer.
    Jay Herrod

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