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Thread: Slot Car Racer Today

  1. #3151
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    NorthWesterner now in Philippines
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    Wallbasher, it appears to be the dust shield. All the balls seem to be spaced properly and stay that way as I rotate the axle. Thanks!
    "That's what SHE said"
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    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

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  2. #3152
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Roseville, CA
    Posts
    146
    Balls said the queen.....

    Ok, on a completely different note....SCR, are you getting some poor motor rebuilding results? I can almost certainly relate it to the motor brushes. I was using new gold dust and BF2 brushes on a contender armature (a known performer in a known set up) with some very odd power supply results.(VERY LOW AMP DRAW) I pulled the new brushes out, cut the comm very light (.001), inserted some used brushes I had with the same springs and the motor seemed to draw like it always had. Why is this happening??? Is it brushes? What I can say is that the GD brushes seem to be a bit bigger and the BF brushes are a completely different color.
    Jay Herrod

  3. #3153
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    155
    Are the new brushes harder? if they are, maybe there is less drag/friction brush vs. com
    Asking all things relevant-

  4. #3154
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
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    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    Balls said the queen.....

    Ok, on a completely different note....SCR, are you getting some poor motor rebuilding results? I can almost certainly relate it to the motor brushes. I was using new gold dust and BF2 brushes on a contender armature (a known performer in a known set up) with some very odd power supply results.(VERY LOW AMP DRAW) I pulled the new brushes out, cut the comm very light (.001), inserted some used brushes I had with the same springs and the motor seemed to draw like it always had. Why is this happening??? Is it brushes? What I can say is that the GD brushes seem to be a bit bigger and the BF brushes are a completely different color.
    JB, my rebuilds have been OK because I reuse brushes over and over until they get too short. I think a pair should last about three rebuilds. Also, my box of 50 pairs of BF IIs is about half gone, and I got that with some winnings at the 2011 Nats....so those are older brushes. Same with my 50 pair of GD brushes, got them quite a while ago. I am reading a lot about brush problems lately. Just like rubber donuts, there are bad batches of everything. That's why if you can, it is always best to spend a ton of money on the staple items in bulk amounts. You get a little price break too. It helps ride out the periods of faulty product.

    That was a really good experiment you did with the Contender, you definitely isolated the issue down to the new brushes. BUT, did you break the motor in fully with the new brushes. Theoretically after a long break in where the brushes get fully seated to the shape of the comm, the amp draw ramps up. That's why used brushes often draw more than new ones. What the heck, you may as well leave those older brushes in the motor if you're happier with them!

    NASCAR? What's that?
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  5. #3155
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Roseville, CA
    Posts
    146
    Well, as far as break in has been going on 16D's and C Can motors...I usually radius the brushes, assemble the motor and break them in at about 3.5 volts, up to 30 minutes+/-....or until I think the motor has stopped "twitching" . Maybe Jason's comment on "how hard are the new brushes" is a great question?? I just rebuilt a 16D for Norcal. Same break in procedure as above but this motor had GD brushes on both sides. After the motor was broken in, it was at 2.4 amps. This motor ran at Franks BDay bash and another of his week night races. 40 minutes+/- run time. I pulled the motor out and put it on the analyzer.... it read 2.8 amps. A bit higher than when it was installed and confirms what you mention on break in with brushes above. Then, I cut the comm, cleaned it up, rezapped.... old, barely used set of GD brushes which had a length of .240, new springs.... 25 minutes later.....3.2 amps. This number is a lot more like what I've seen from this particular motor combo. When I ran it at Franks, I would have told you I was a bit disappointed in it's performance. Tomorrow, if I have some free time from the real estate jungle, I'll take it down to the track in Rocklin and see if there was an improvement in time. Just Friday at Rocklin, it was a high 4.7 motor. I have seen low 4.6's from it before. I'll give you the report on the Contender as well, which was also off 2 tenths. SCR, can you define what is too short for brushes in your C can program? And NASCAR is..... what I keep hearing of you testing. Inquiring minds want to know!
    Jay Herrod

  6. #3156
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    137
    yeah wut he sait! prolly chinas makin em now out of their fillings

  7. #3157
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    621
    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Freddie View Post
    EdC
    The formula is the simplest one I could come up with. A simple ratio formula using known measurements that work to find a measurement that would be exact for the arm being used. If one works then in theory the other should also work. I also use the same ratio formula to find common tire size and gear ratio final drive numbers. Sort of like if a .8125 tire is using a 39T spur what would a .750 tire need to use. Both using the same pinion gear. The final drive ratio should be very close. It will also work with pinion and spur combinations.
    I like the theory, I was trying to come up with a diagram and a how to use as a sheet for setups and tuning.
    Just some more things to lug around in my pit box!

  8. #3158
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    804
    I actually believe the new SBF IIs are softer than the older ones. I say this because when I honed them for my setup I couldn't feel the hone working. Usually with harder brushes I can feel a slight grinding even when I use lighter fluid during the process. They are definitely a different color. My older SBF IIs are gray and the new batch I got look more redish orange in color. They were in a Koford back tagged container. I haven't checked the amp draw against my older brushes. Maybe give that a shot this week.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  9. #3159
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Just got back from the garage, site of the epoxy oven and currently the site of the tire gluing. Wife hates the smell of the tire adhesive. Can't blame her really. Went kind of nuts this time, 46 pairs. Got some Radford Sushi Grade Albacore to try out, they are really wide and look sort of like the old UFRA rubber. I can get a pair of 1/32 eurosport tires out of one donut. Anyway, I think I'll let the glue on the hubs and donuts dry and then assemble tomorrow night. Got some kind of cryptic message from Hermanator about Comcast shipping call center people out of California to some other state, maybe Cambodia for all we know. He assures me that he will still be at the Hermanator Building in Livermore, Calif.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  10. #3160
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond, CA
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    Well, as far as break in has been going on 16D's and C Can motors...I usually radius the brushes, assemble the motor and break them in at about 3.5 volts, up to 30 minutes+/-....or until I think the motor has stopped "twitching" . Maybe Jason's comment on "how hard are the new brushes" is a great question?? I just rebuilt a 16D for Norcal. Same break in procedure as above but this motor had GD brushes on both sides. After the motor was broken in, it was at 2.4 amps. This motor ran at Franks BDay bash and another of his week night races. 40 minutes+/- run time. I pulled the motor out and put it on the analyzer.... it read 2.8 amps. A bit higher than when it was installed and confirms what you mention on break in with brushes above. Then, I cut the comm, cleaned it up, rezapped.... old, barely used set of GD brushes which had a length of .240, new springs.... 25 minutes later.....3.2 amps. This number is a lot more like what I've seen from this particular motor combo. When I ran it at Franks, I would have told you I was a bit disappointed in it's performance. Tomorrow, if I have some free time from the real estate jungle, I'll take it down to the track in Rocklin and see if there was an improvement in time. Just Friday at Rocklin, it was a high 4.7 motor. I have seen low 4.6's from it before. I'll give you the report on the Contender as well, which was also off 2 tenths. SCR, can you define what is too short for brushes in your C can program? And NASCAR is..... what I keep hearing of you testing. Inquiring minds want to know!
    Good info on the breaking in of motors JB. This corresponds exactly to my method. I remember good ol' Monty, God rest in peace, used to expound upon the wet break in. I never got into that. I wonder why your motor is twitching. When mine twitch, I slam em with a big hammer a couple of times until they smooth out. You might try that. You too Einstein, it might soften up yer hard brushes. Your 2.8 amps with a 16D is about right, that's approximately what my two dozen or so 16D motors do, depending on which track I plan to use them on. OK, I'm jest messin' with ya now!!! Haaaa haaaa haaaaaa. I actually only have one motor. I haven't even gotten 15 minutes track time EVER on the Poiple Angel. I might just have to give it a whirl next week! Stand back everyone!!!!!
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

  11. #3161
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Roseville, CA
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by Slotcar Racer View Post
    Good info on the breaking in of motors JB. This corresponds exactly to my method. I remember good ol' Monty, God rest in peace, used to expound upon the wet break in. I never got into that. I wonder why your motor is twitching. When mine twitch, I slam em with a big hammer a couple of times until they smooth out. You might try that. You too Einstein, it might soften up yer hard brushes. Your 2.8 amps with a 16D is about right, that's approximately what my two dozen or so 16D motors do, depending on which track I plan to use them on. OK, I'm jest messin' with ya now!!! Haaaa haaaa haaaaaa. I actually only have one motor. I haven't even gotten 15 minutes track time EVER on the Poiple Angel. I might just have to give it a whirl next week! Stand back everyone!!!!!
    Motor problems solved... well, at least temporarily. Both the 16D and Contender seem like they'll be contenders now. I was thinking about the brushes though. Maybe I'm not breaking them in long enough?? You'd think 30 minutes dry would suffice but maybe not with the new brushes. Maybe I should revisit the water break-in again??? See ya next weekend.
    Jay Herrod

  12. #3162
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    Jay,

    If you don't pull the brush and look you'll never know if you have broken it in long enough. I will often break in the motor and then install the shunts. That way I can easily pull the brushes to look at them.
    Gary Johnson

  13. #3163
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    NorthWesterner now in Philippines
    Posts
    9,531
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    Motor problems solved... well, at least temporarily. Both the 16D and Contender seem like they'll be contenders now. I was thinking about the brushes though. Maybe I'm not breaking them in long enough?? You'd think 30 minutes dry would suffice but maybe not with the new brushes. Maybe I should revisit the water break-in again??? See ya next weekend.
    Maybe you should name your 16D motor "Brando"....
    "I coulda been a contender"
    Then you could even revisit your water break-in "On the Waterfront".

    Sorry gang... I'll go back to my room now...
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    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

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  14. #3164
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Roseville, CA
    Posts
    146
    I coulda had class....I coulda been somebody...lol Now that's funny, Paul!! Cheers!!
    Jay Herrod

  15. #3165
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
    Motor problems solved... well, at least temporarily. Both the 16D and Contender seem like they'll be contenders now. I was thinking about the brushes though. Maybe I'm not breaking them in long enough?? You'd think 30 minutes dry would suffice but maybe not with the new brushes. Maybe I should revisit the water break-in again??? See ya next weekend.
    I usually do about an hour sometimes longer for a 16D. Seems to take a very long time to get a full break in on a 16D
    "Dub" Wade
    Nampa, ID
    208-392-0639
    dustynwade@ymail.com
    Dub Motors, Dub Rides, Dub Winged bodies, PMP Chassis, Paint by Odie, Bone Bodies.
    Of course Balance by Beuf
    3rd Eye Controllers

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