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Thread: Slot Car Racer Today

  1. #706
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    George I mean SCR..... why not just make a .022 + .015 in one shim of .037 or .040 shim stock?
    Why do I do this to myself?

  2. #707
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    Rob, I mean Wall....I will do that, good idea. I think I have a .035" feeler gauge in my box, or I'll just use .032" stock.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
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  3. #708
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    SCR,
    I've never been able to get my head around the way the Czech's set their cars up.

    We always try to slam the front end, yet you will always see them running high????

    Woody
    Woodyatoaklands

  4. #709
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    Woody, I'm with you on your comments about the Czechs. What you have said in a tidy two sentences, I am now going to expand further with way too much information…as usual.

    I once had the Horky 1/24 chassis….the “Finland” design with the wire across the front. I raced it at the 2010 North American Masters at Mid America Raceway, got 2nd behind the illustrious Greg Gilbert. It worked pretty well for this race…quite forgiving, but I did notice it kind of bottomed out coming out of turns. The center of the chassis looked pitted from arcing across the braid!

    With its “half spine”, I initially thought the center of the chassis had too much flex, so I extended the spine to full length. The chassis still bottomed out….I’d have to baby it coming out of turns…especially at my home track. It also bottomed out at Chick’s at the 2010 USRA Scale Nats. I won that race with a 2009 Mack.

    After that race, I spoke with Mike Stahl about the Czech chassis. He suggested running tall clearance up front, as high as 1.0mm!!!! I tried that, and the bottoming out subsided to some degree, but of course it handled horribly...flopped around like a fish on land. I finally just sold the chassis and gave up on it!

    A few months later at The Worlds, I bought the “Chicago” Horky from the store and right out of the box it worked great, no bottoming out, and I slammed the front end. I did, however, add a .047” piano wire from the end of the “half spine” to the guide tongue per Lee Gilbert’s suggestion. It’s been my favorite 1/24 chassis since, and I even got a second one.

    All these observations make me wonder if the Czechs run their cars high in the front instead of slammed like you and I prefer.

    Getting back to ES32, I’ve always liked the older Horky ES32 with a shim under the guide tongue to prevent the up and down. In the past when it is too loose, I have added lexan bullet proofing to the front end skids and it helps tighten it. Also, when running at tracks like Mid America where the braid recess is about .015” lower than my home track, the Horky runs low enough to accumulate ablation* at the front of the chassis. At the 2011 USRA Scale Nats, I found the lexan skids were unnecessary. It picked up the ablation very uniformly just like the photo of Gawronski’s Italian chassis in an earlier post. Come to think of it, I am happy with the way the car runs in Chicago, but unhappy with performance at my home track which still has the original braid on it….almost no recess.

    I suppose I am chasing after better handling on my home track is what it comes down to!!! The question is, how will the recess be on the Super 8 next month in Philadelphia. Lou said about .015”….that is really good. OK, back to the drawing board tonight.

    *Ablation: new English language word for “track scum” invented by Guy Middleton, AKA MentalKase
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  5. #710
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    SR,

    Just received an interesting report from Chip Adams who is at the ISRA/USA North East Championship race at Lou Pirro's Grand Prix Model Raceway. The Super 8 is in tip top shape for next month’s IRSA/USA National Championship race in Philly! According to Chip's report the OS Bent Lee was a tad bit quicker than the Star Fighter. The Star Fighter shines on our local tracks that are about a 130 feet on average. The Super 8’s 25 or 30 feet in additional length may favor a little less down force.
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  6. #711
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    Jeff, we just have to be so grateful to Lou and his helpers for working on that track. I want the Philly race to be a successful slotcar event, and when you start out with a world class racetrack, it can only get better from there. I know that the Super 8 crew had to go through each slot and vacuum up the crud left over from the router. I've done that myself and it is a tedious but necessary job.

    As for your body testing, it makes perfect sense that the Bent Lee would be better. That's what we ran a few weeks ago in Seattle which is also a fast track...not as long as the Super 8, but long straightaways and a few twisty bits. Actually, in Seattle they only allow the O/S 068 which is the older version, not the 069 with the extended side dams.

    When I tested my G10 on the Testarossa last Sunday, I was running a 10T pinion and have since learned the 11T is the way to go. I also had a sense that the Starfighter was overkill and produced massive downforce, but excessive drag, thus slowing the car down unnecessarily. I don't plan to put much time into the first three classes we run, I'm looking at those as learning the Super 8 for the first time. But, being Slotcar Racer, I feel compelled to do my best in each class. Time to put on the Bent Lee and the 11T pinion.
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  7. #712
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    I only got off one photo before the camera battery died. But I decided against making a thicker shim to go under the guide tongue...I felt more comfortable adding a .015" shim under the existing shim and guide tongue. So, as seen in the below photo, I made a generous rectangular area for everything to sit on top of.

    DSCN4149

    No additional photos yet, but to finish this job, I added two .015" shims to either side of the "T" piece and soldered it all in place. All I did was to simply raise everything by .015". The results were gratifying, now with the cut down guide, I have just the right clearance under the front end, at least I hope so. I will test it on the Testarossa tomorrow and see if I can get a good accumulation of ablation.
    Last edited by Slotcar Racer; 06-10-2011 at 09:08 PM. Reason: spelled ablation incorrectly
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
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  8. #713
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    Now that the camera battery is recharged, here is the final product for the Horky ES32. The little bits that fit down into the chassis are basically pulled out of their holes by about .015", or about halfway. My only worry is the front bit, the "T", not a lot holding it in. Eventually I'll have to make my own to work with this new set up.

    DSCN4151
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
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  9. #714
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    Hey SR,
    I know the flexi classes are more of a warm up for the infamous Slotcar Racer but for some like me the "GSI rookie of the year" (love writing that it cracks me up, a rookie at 50+) these classes are very challenging.

    Today while watching a little of Lou's birthday race I'm hoping to tear down my X25 and prep it for the Philly race. After that comes the complete rebuild of 2 of my C11's. I'm going to do them "SR style"... I followed your tips a while back on a C11 .025 chassis I built as a Gp 10 car to run on the 220' Engleman at NJ SpeedZone and the chassis was awesome.
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  10. #715
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    In my quest to enhance my knowledge base, yet while not stepping far from my primary source of learning (ummm... slot cars... via OWH Slot Car Talk), I proceeded to do some searches using Google & various online dictionary & references to further understand this newly discovered use (by MentalKase... and now above by Slotcar Racer) of the term "ablation".

    Not to contradict our learned fellow slot car scholar, but all definitions and synonyms for "ablation" seemed to involve the REMOVAL of material, through either surgical or various means of wear, erosion, or abrasion.

    While my head may spin when confronted by physics or math theories posted by MentalKase and others here... I do try to at least attempt to maintain a somewhat earnest pursuit of communication and language skills.

    In this case, to describe the ACCUMULATION of debris on the bottom of the chassis (commonly known among racers as "picking up track crud"), what we really mean would be an ANTONYM of "ablation".

    All searches for antonyms for ablation proved fruitless, as there apparently are none. So... to further capitalize upon my already vested interest in time spent... I eventually searched for definitions and synonyms of the phrase "accumulation of debris".

    This phrase seemed to more accurately depict what we describe as "picking up track crud", and resulted in what I think may better describe this phenomenon: "accretion".


    accretion \ac*cre"tion\ ([a^]k*kr[=e]"sh[u^]n), n. [L. accretio,
    fr. accrescere to increase. Cf. {Crescent}, {Increase},
    {Accrue}.]

    [1913 Webster]

    1. The act of increasing by natural growth; esp. the increase
    of organic bodies by the internal accession of parts;
    organic growth. --Arbuthnot.
    [1913 Webster]


    2. The act of increasing, or the matter added, by an
    accession of parts externally; an extraneous addition; as,
    an accretion of earth.

    While the word "accretion" as used in astrophysics, is used to apply to "accretion discs", and how massive objects gravitationally attract and accumulate gaseous matter and other space crud in the galaxy... While in the nebular theory, accretion refers to the collision and sticking of cooled microscopic dust and ice particles electrostatically...

    However, the geology application of "accretion" seems to fit our use of the term best:

    There are two types of geologic accretion. The first kind of accretion, plate accretion, involves the addition of material to a tectonic plate.

    The second form of accretion is landmass accretion. This involves the addition of sediment to a coastline or riverbank, increasing land area. The most noteworthy landmass accretion is the deposition of alluvium, often containing precious metals, on riverbanks and in river deltas.


    I submit - that this definition of the word "accretion" best describes the phenomenon that MentalKase was referencing above while referring to what I have heard described at the track as "picking up track crud"... (rather then "ablation").

    So... if that definition fits what MentalKase & Slotcar Racer are discussing... then I would like to suggest we add the term "accretion" (rather then "ablation") to our "slot car dictionary" of terms used in our illustrious little hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by OWH Slot Car Racing Dictionary
    accretion: (slot cars)\ac*cre"tion\ ([a^]k*kr[=e]"sh[u^]n), n.
    The accumulation of debris, commonly referred to as "picking up track crud", on the bottom of a slot car chassis. This accumulation is usually the result of extremely low clearance or actual contact with the track surface, resulting in the accumulation of a combination of traction compound and rubber tire ablation particles on the bottom of the chassis. (auth: 2011 - Paul Kassens, Old Weird Herald)
    There... I even managed to find a way to toss in Guy's word "ablation" into the definition!

    Last edited by oldweirdherald; 06-11-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

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  11. #716
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Reno
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    Dear SR,
    I was wondering if you had a "spring theory"? Track power, armature wind, air gap, jet stream currents... The reason I ask is last night, after running the Falcon LMP at Carson Slot Car Raceway, I put on a .540 contender powered car. After a few warm up laps I was able to get the car up to speed- what I noticed is that the motor "screamed" going down the straightaway. I claim NO musical knowledge, but the pitch was quite extraordinary! The only other time I have heard a car/motor scream like this is recent memory was last week when Crash Codger would go flying down the straight away on the Motherlode- his motor, sounded like it was coming out of its shoes! In past conversations with Crash, he had mentioned that often times he runs VERY short brushes- this type of setup allowed him to not have so much break that the driver would come flying out of the window when he entered a corner. The track in Carson is a very short, chopped up flat track- such that you really need a car to with out a ton breaks to roll through the corners. I said to myself "Self, why don't you try running very soft springs to fake to motor into thinking it has small/short brushes thereby reducing the breaking power of the motor and freeing up the car around the track." This seemed to work pretty well- as the car did not have to much breaking power- I did not have time to try stiffer springs before leaving the track to see if the spring theory was correct or not, so here I am... seeking advise on the subject-
    Jason
    Asking all things relevant-

  12. #717
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    Rockies
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    ablation:

    "Ablation is removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization, chipping, or other erosive processes. The term occurs in spaceflight associated with atmospheric reentry, in glaciology, medicine, and passive fire protection."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablation

    slotstuff

  13. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by slotstuff View Post
    ablation:

    "Ablation is removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization, chipping, or other erosive processes. The term occurs in spaceflight associated with atmospheric reentry, in glaciology, medicine, and passive fire protection."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablation

    slotstuff
    Yup - I read that definition, but I just summed up several definitions rather then post them. As I said in my post - "ablation" is REMOVAL of material... so I looked for a term that was ACCUMULATION of material, to which I found "accretion"... since we were talking about accumulation of track crud on the bottom of the chassis...

    I didn't really mean to start up an ACCRETION of somewhat off-topic posts about word definitions! (but I guess I did)

    Back to you, SR... I'll let you answer Jason's question about spring theory...

    (OWH Slot Car Dictionary: "Spring Tension: when you can't get a date in March")

    I suddenly feel a craving for a Pop Tart....
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    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

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  14. #719
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    Jan 2011
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    Dear SR,
    I was wondering if you had a "spring theory"?

    Jason, I can tell you straight off that I do not have a spring theory, so let me just make that point without any further elaboration.

    Track power, armature wind, air gap, jet stream currents...

    And of course, interplanetary alignment and tidal cycles

    The reason I ask is last night, after running the Falcon LMP at Carson Slot Car Raceway, I put on a .540 contender powered car.

    From my standpoint, that would be a big relief after running a Falcon....

    After a few warm up laps I was able to get the car up to speed- what I noticed is that the motor "screamed" going down the straightaway. I claim NO musical knowledge, but the pitch was quite extraordinary!

    Jason, you not only heard an extraordinary pitch, but it was also the "timbre" of what you were hearing that was so striking to your untrained, yet sensitive ears.

    The only other time I have heard a car/motor scream like this is recent memory was last week when Crash Codger would go flying down the straight away on the Motherlode- his motor, sounded like it was coming out of its shoes!

    You're right, the Codger's motors scream like banshees. Scares the daylights out of me personally.

    In past conversations with Crash, he had mentioned that often times he runs VERY short brushes- this type of setup allowed him to not have so much break that the driver would come flying out of the window when he entered a corner.

    I believe you are referring to CRASH Codger's use of short brushes to decrease braking, not breaking. As we all know, breaking is unavoidable in the NORCAL series, however we do have certain control over braking. And I agree, when the driver flies out the window upon entering a corner, that is disturbing.

    The track in Carson is a very short, chopped up flat track- such that you really need a car to with out a ton breaks to roll through the corners. I said to myself "Self, why don't you try running very soft springs to fake to motor into thinking it has small/short brushes thereby reducing the breaking power of the motor and freeing up the car around the track." This seemed to work pretty well- as the car did not have to much breaking power- I did not have time to try stiffer springs before leaving the track to see if the spring theory was correct or not, so here I am... seeking advise on the subject-

    Jason, it's interesting you bring up this subject. I know that braking (as opposed to breaking) is controlled by four things:
    1) Spring tension
    2) Magnet (airgap)
    3) Gear ratio
    4) Controller setting

    Yesterday I was testing JRL for the upcoming ISRA Nats. I was running a Super Wasp with a .540" PS arm, Cahoza UL set up with T5s at .560" airgap. It has way too much brakes. So, I went to my experiment. Kelly 3 hole set up, Koford magnets honed to .560" and a BOW Contender arm. Cut lap times by two tenths, and the braking was not causing the driver to be hurtled out of the cockpit and rolling against the wall in the deadman. I was using the theory of weaker magnets for this experiment. I am also thinking of trying a .570" airgap if Frank has a hone. I don't mess with springs much, maybe I should. I do run shorter brushes though, but not as short as Codger.

    Jason
    Last edited by Slotcar Racer; 06-12-2011 at 09:08 AM.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
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  15. #720
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    I tried reading the stuff about ablation and my head started hurting. As far as I am concerned, when I use the term ablation, you know what I'm talking about.

    DSCN4161

    This photo is my ES32 Horky after yesterday's testing. Notice the ablation trailing from the .005" lexan skids. I have mixed reviews on my changes to the front end. I think it helped, but didn't quite go as far as I wanted. I did, however, get down to 3.82 which is quite good, as fast as Hermanator ran his Piero last Sunday.

    I looked at Hermanator's new Piero chassis and there is a big thick .038-.040" shim under that guide tongue. Piero uses the same "T" piece as Horky, except it is taller to work with the thicker shim. Makes sense to me. The front of the Piero is slammed.

    Spoke with CRASH Codger on the way home with testing report, he said I need to fabricate a new "T" piece up front like the Piero and put in the thicker shim. OK, I have my work cut out for me now. Always up for a challenge.
    Journeyman Industrial Slotcar Worker, Teamsters Local 3299 AFL-CIO
    Now with "Improved Karma"

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