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Thread: Help with Parma FCR Tunning

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    King City Ca.
    Posts
    22

    Help with Parma FCR Tunning

    The only links I can find for tunning FCR cars are disabled can anyone help. I know nothing about these cars. I wanted to read up a little befor I bought one. Would the make a good rental?Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    winston salem nc
    Posts
    333
    a flexi chassis with say a 501/falcon/hawk7 would make a better rental imo and be less work on the track owner/workers. fcr is not a bad car but they bend easy at the guide flag when they take a wall shot. best rentals i have saw run are 4inch flexi chassis with a falcon motor or a 501..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    southern, NH
    Posts
    351
    Be it a stamp steel or FCR chassis metal bends either way when it has too much momentum and stops by running into something hard. My local track before it closed used both the Parma belt driven rental cars as well as the FCR's. If you can still get them the belt driven rentals hold up pretty good but again nothing is bend proof.

    My suggest is go with either the Parma rental car or FCR then reinforce the guide tongue and other parts of the chassis. One advantage with the FCR is you can adjust the gearing for speed in coordination with track power where as with the rental car the speed is the speed.

    I do have quit a few set up tips for the FCR if you still want those.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    West Springfield, MA
    Posts
    105
    I've probably got upwards of 16 FCR cars (4" & 4.5") that were a throw in when I bought my track. I got the corian fixture to solder in the bushings and set the guide tongue. The corian block is flat so one can see if the chassis is not flat. I would love to get more tuning tips on the chassis! They are a lot of fun because everyone can race on the same platform and it's up to driving skills to make the difference.

    So, even tho this isn't my thread, I'd love the setup tips!

    Henry
    Last edited by hfs3; 01-23-2011 at 09:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Clitherall MN 56524
    Posts
    118
    they're VERY fun with a sealed Parma S16D the 2 I have both have S16D's

    the only things I do is solder the bushings, make a small "U" brace for the motor bracket (from the rear bushing uprights up to the top of the motor bracket and back down to the other bushing upright), and have the fronts (tires) a couple thousandths off the track but the true height of the fronts will depend on the track layout as my local track has the braid laid a few thousandths below the track surface to prevent arching

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    southern, NH
    Posts
    351
    All right here are some of the set up tips I use for a 4.5" FCR.

    First the it will be difficult to get the center line of the chassis perfectly flat because of the motor bracket being in line. You may need to bend and re-bend the sides of the chassis to get the center line as flat as possible. While you are doing this be sure to get the front and rear as flat or as parallel to the tech block as possible. If it's off by a couple of thousands it will be fine.

    Next align your bushings. I have found that having the bushing it up and back position work well for hard bodies as that is what this chassis was set up for. If you do not have a retro or two axle jig set up first align your rear axle then you use a pair of calipers to square up the front axle to the rear.

    If you rules allow a 3/32 axle for the front I recommend using piano wire. It's just as strong as the long 3/32 axles over the counter. Cut the axle to the maximum width your rules allow and tine. In the front the 3/32 axle passes through the bushings and is soldered in place for extra strength for both the axle and chassis. This way if the axle gets bent it won't in, most cases, fall below the chassis causing de-slots.

    Set up your front wheels to be independent. This will help the car roll through the turns better. Use some Slick 7 brass axle spacers to align your wheel spacing and solder them into place on both sides of each tire. You can also use some wide axles spacers between the bushings and tires until you find the right front tire stagger if you desire. Also stay away from rock hard front tires. Treated or even untreated tires will be fine. If the tires are too hard the car will not have any give and it will just roll out. Cut the front tires to the minimum diameter and coat with clear nail polish. I like to do two coats making sure the first is dry before applying the second. I then re-true them to ensure they are still round being careful not to remove all of the nail polish. Remove the set screw from the tires. This can be used as an oiling point. One you have your spacing set trim off any over hanging parts of the axle.

    Adjust your guide height so the front tires have about .010-.015 between the track surface. This of course is done while your chassis is sitting on track you will be racing. Add or subtract spacers in .005 increments to see how the car handles best for you.

    For bracing, if your rules allow, put a steel guide tongue. There are numerous ones out there, I would suggest a coined one. The next important area is the rear end. The pic below shows a womp rear end but the set up is the same. .055 wire is a good choice to use. I got lucky with the bends so I was able to use one continuous piece. If your not that lucky or confident in bending wire make a 90* bend starting at the bottom of the chassis then make a second bend just above the bushing. The third bend will be made at top of the motor bracket to complete essentially a "C" brace. Do the same for the other side and be sure to tin the wire before soldering in place. Add an "L" brace for the side of the motor to finish bullet proofing the rear end.

    For body mounts use pin tubing if allowed. If for a hard body application you can use the piece of .047 wire with pin tube retainer as shown in the pics below. The hole in the chassis was enlarged slightly to ensure the the wire could be raised high enough to pass above the rocker panels on the body and to also allow the body to float. The ends of the wire are also bent up slightly to allow better alignment.

    Don't be afraid to add a little weight to either side of the motor to help with handling.
    Remember even with lexan bodies these cars are heavy so depending on your power and track size I would start with a 7/28. The car shown ran on a 95 foot hillbclimb at 12 volts gears 7/29 and ran equally well on a 185 engleman at 13.8 volts.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    southern, NH
    Posts
    351
    Here a pic of the body mounted to the chassis. I also put a piece of tape from the body to the under side of the chassis just in front of the wire to ensure the body doesn't pop off during the race. For hard bodies it's also a good idea to use some hot water to spread the body so it fits on the chassis easier. For those that are brave you can also use a blow dryer but be careful not to over heat the plastic.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    King City Ca.
    Posts
    22
    Very nicely written thanks for the tips Ken

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    southern, NH
    Posts
    351
    It's Dom actually but close enough LOL.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    King City Ca.
    Posts
    22
    Again I failed grammar and punctuation I was sining off my name is Ken

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    West Springfield, MA
    Posts
    105
    Thanks for a great, informative post on FCR tuning! I have a few comments and questions:

    Set up your front wheels to be independent. Use Slick 7 brass axle spacers to align your wheel spacing, then solder them on both sides of the tires.
    Will definitely have to try that!

    Cut the front tires to the minimum diameter and coat with clear nail polish.
    What is the minimum diameter?

    The next important area is the rear end.
    Excellent point - the piano wire will definitely help keep that area stable. I noticed you soldered the motor to the upright, but couldn't tell if you also soldered it to the ridges running alongside it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    southern, NH
    Posts
    351
    hfs3,

    The minimum front tire diameter we ran was basically next to nothing on the fronts. As long as there was rubber on the hub it was legal. Most everyone else I raced with did not make use of the front wheels. They would also push the wheels right up against the up rights. With this set up the front wheels actually support the chassis when it goes into the turn there is minimum rubbing on the underside of the chassis. This also allowed me to go deeper into the turn and out faster. Basically I set up the front wheel diameter so if all four wheels are on the block with out a guide there is about .003-.005 of clearance between the chassis and tech block.

    You are correct on how the motor is soldered, it is only soldered on the top. If you look at the last picture in post #6 of the womp chassis you will see a "L" brace that will be soldered to the side of the motor and chassis. The FCR also has one but did not come out clear in the pics. With the motor soldered to the original bracket, a "L" bracket used as a second brace, and finally the rear end set up as described it makes it 99% indestructible when everything is soldered together. The last 1% I leave for chance or someone purposely trying to inflict damage.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Chicago 'burbs
    Posts
    192
    Opie,
    We allow for bracing of the front and rear uprights of the chassis in our weekly racing, but I don't do it in FCR because I found that it causes other strange places to bend in the chassis. I just try very hard not to hit anything. I also try to use no wieght in the car. Every few weeks I strip my car down and make sure it is FLAT, and the uprights are true and square. For the money, I think the FCR is a good entry level car for racing. There are some issues with the car as it comes out of the box. When I see someone buy one I try to grab it right away and solder the motor, front bushings, make sure the rear bushings aren't bound or cold soldered, add some lead wire clips so the wires don't fall out, and check the gear mesh. (I usually grab a piece of dot paper and set it between the crown and pinion as I retighten the crown) That's it. That's how we run them.
    If your local rules allow for more mod's to the chassis, tires,etc . I say go for it. Whatever works. We also use the FCR chassis for Hard body racing and we cut the uprights (to raise the bushings) to allow for larger 1" tall tires while keeping a low ground clearance, and you can narrow the chassis up for a better fit.
    Dominator- Just asking for the benefit of others. Does all that bracing turn your car into a tire eater? Also, does adding all that weight make the car difficult to stop or loose in the rear? If so, can you explain to the others how you offset these effects?
    www.slotcar1.com
    Mid America Raceway and Hobbies
    Life's a garden, so buy a bulldozer

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    southern, NH
    Posts
    351
    Brian,

    Never had any problems with the car eating up tires. Tire wear has been the same as other cars without bracing. The key to bracing is making sure the pieces that are being fitted actually fit or "sit" in place on their own without being forced into position. If it's forced you can easily have added tension in the chassis causing ill handling and as you said possible added tire wear. Added weight from the bracing is minimum. I have not weighed the bracing lately but from what I remember between adding a guide tongue, "L" brace for the motor, and the rear end bracing its only about 3 grams which if you then factor in the total weight of the car even without a body it's a marginal weight increase. Personally I would rather have the extra bracing and be able to continue racing after hitting something or someone instead to putting the car back in the box. The other way you can cut down on weight is using .047 if you are daring. I have used this before but if it's anything more than the occasional bump and run you will have damage.

    Adding the weight in the corner was to help the car cornering around one of the turns. As for the car being looser it is not even noticeable. The biggest thing noticed was the car was faster and more consistent lap to lap which turned into more laps. No issues with being able to stop.

    Another tip that some used for tuning was running a larger hub on one side of the car. This was usually done on the inside of the car going around the donut. With a smaller hub on the outside of the donut it helps the car grip more when the car leans and in turn helps the car corner faster, at least in the left turns. I personally never liked it but have driven other cars set up like this and it does work. Mainly depends on the kind of track and which side to you want to be quicker on.

    Here is a link to the picture of the 100 foot hillclimb we ran on with the FCR hardbody.http://http://needforspeedraceway.co...nformation.htm
    Last edited by dominator; 01-27-2011 at 07:04 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9
    I have a question about the FCR car running in the spec class in the National Series .In this class we are allowed the .032 clearance behind the front tires.How do you get the car to be lower yet stop the tires from touching all the time?Or how can you get one of these car to handle better .We can not free wheel the wheels they have to be locked to the axle .I have the bushings soldered up to the highest position .I just can not get a handle on this car plus we are on an LTD .Just how much do you want the fronts to touch ? Any help would be great guys .I just can't get a handle on the set up !!!! Plus I know the old nail polish trick but I am being told we can't do it .

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