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View Poll Results: Should raceways charge for live feeds

Voters
63. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, provide the servide for free

    53 84.13%
  • Of course, Raceways need to survive

    10 15.87%
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Thread: Live Race coverage

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    White House, TN.
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    440
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippity View Post
    Not that hackneyed old worn out argument again

    "If you don't eat your greens you can't have any pudding"

    "If you don't eat your crusts, you won't get curly hair"
    If I was a Track owner, I would blast your A$$ out of the water!!!
    Tracy Brown, Owner of:
    Go Fast Products - Slot Cars-R-Us "The Track"
    Visit Go Fast HERE!
    Visit our NEW Slot Cars-R-Us "The Track"!

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
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    4,511
    If you were a track owner with that sort of attitude you wouldn't be in business

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    NorthWesterner now in Philippines
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    9,648
    Here we go again...

    And people wonder why I step in with my "can't we all just along?" & "Kum Ba Ya" type posts, and then lock threads...

    Tracy - I get that your intention is to find a way for track owners and Nats host tracks can make enough $ to justify the expense of live webcam coverage.

    I simply disagree that pay-per-view will work, or be a good way to accomplish that. I have studied internet marketing for years, and I don't claim to be an expert, but I've watched these trends. Shontel is a successful track owner and recent Nats host. We're not trying to shoot down your idea - we simply disagree.

    Zippity, on the other hand... loves a good debate, and often steps over the line a bit... (hint, hint)

    I'm NOT against a raceway trying to make money. But the initial question regarded whether they should charge money for racers (and friends & family) who are NOT attending, to watch online, to help cover the cost of the webcast - or to make a profit.

    You are missing my points as well as Shontel's points...

    My points are:

    (1) It won't work. There are simply not enough people willing to pay to watch to generate enough revenue to make it worth the effort.

    This is my OPINION. If somebody tries it and proves me wrong - I'll be the first to admit it and I'd be happy for them.

    (2) I think it would be more cost effective to use advertising & sponsorship to cover the webcam coverage then to use pay-per-view.
    This is my educated opinion, and ties in with the next points...

    (3) I think that providing FREE webcam for viewers, using a high traffic medium like UStream, there is a much greater opportunity to expose the hobby, the event, and the raceway... to a large audience of potential new customers/racers.

    (4) By promoting the hobby/event/raceway using the free resources like UStream, Facebook, etc... it ultimately helps to grow the hobby, which can indirectly or eventually also help to grow the raceway (hopefully even directly - since viewers from their area could also discover the raceway and wind up becoming customers and racers).

    These last two are combining points made by me and by Shontel.

    Zippity's last little zinger reminds me of the old saying - "you can catch more flies with honey then with vinegar".
    I agree with the sentiment, but not with the tone of delivery (of either of yours or his last posts). Once again -I'm hoping to keep things constructive and positive. (no more zingers please... ok?)

    I'm feeling Shontel's frustration a bit, because it seems like you keep beating the pay-per-view drum, but don't appear to be acknowledging or getting OUR points. It's OK if disagree - but it would be nice if you at least listen and try to understand or at least consider our points.

    I am really thrilled that Shontel has freely helped provide online race coverage these past few years, and I appreciate her efforts. I will always do my part to promote the webcam coverage and any promotion that will help to expose the hobby, the events, and the raceways... thus hopefully helping them to gain new customers and ultimately grow the hobby.

    This is how I believe they can all make some money, by keeping the webcams free for the viewers.

    Perhaps our ideas are long term instead of short term, but I believe it would benefit a lot more then just the host raceway.

    I think I've said all I can say on this... I do hope you at least get my points.

    BTW - I've had this same discussion and made all the same arguments in the past when people have suggested that I should have OWH be pay-per-view or a membership funded site. OWH is getting over 10,000 visitors PER DAY. Just how many visitors do you think OWH would get if I charged? And how many potential new racers???

    Kum Ba Ya.... blah blah blah... my work is done here...
    Last edited by oldweirdherald; 05-29-2011 at 11:36 PM.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Paul Kassens
    OWH Slot Car Talk "Mom"
    The Old Weird Herald
    email: paulk@oldweirdherald.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    181
    I for one like to think I had something to do with it.
    For many years it was my dream to be able to follow big event, but as I am sure for 99% of you, I did not have the financial or time to travel the globe to do so.
    For that reason I made the LapMaster software. With this we first started broadcasting the Lap counter and timing "live" from the 2007 European Plafit championship. At this time we had no web-cams and no Ustream existed.
    In 2008 we had a web-cam with stills from every 5 second interval. Before the 2010 Dallas Show, Shontel and I worked closely and intens on raising the bar, and we came up with the unbeatable Live-Timing/Ustream/Chat combination.
    Adding to that the extraordinary abilities of Shontel to man the chat while working as race director at the same time, I beleive we moved high level slot-car racing forward, bigtime. I don't think the 250 spectator high mark from the event has been surpassed yet.
    It really raised the bar, and now aday we have come to expect big events to be webcast.

    The intention was, and has always been to promote the hobby. If you sign up for hosting a major event, providing a webcast to loved ones of the racers, fellow club members or plain and simple newcomers to the sport, is simply part of the package.
    (And while we are at it, failure to man the chat is what is holding back the success of post Dallas events)

    While doing all the ground work, ofcause we all had the dream to become the Bernie Eckelstone of slotracing. However the audience needs to be much (MUCH) bigger before pay-per-view is even relevant. The free-per-view needs to grow the audience into tens-of-thounsands before pay-per-view should be considered. Slot racing is a participant sport, not a spectator sport. However better information systems like LapMaster and manned chat can make the events interesting to follow, and might help the sport grow rather than decline.
    Best regards,
    Carsten Groennemann.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    So, while I agree that tracks need to make money to survive. I also feel they need to find a way to get the word out and promote to get business. To me, providing race coverage comes under that category. Just like any other advertising.

    Also, quite frankly, I can't see ANYONE actually paying to watch a slot car race on the internet. Shoot, I won't even pay to watch a NASCAR or F1 race on the internet, so why would I do that for a slot car race that I likely don't know the racers and where you literally can't see the cars on the track anyway most of the time.

    Having worked at a large internet company that survives on the advertisers on it's site, I can tell you that what Paul is saying about having Google ads on the site WORKS. Sure it won't bring in a lot of money but it WILL bring in about the same amount of money as making people pay for the ability to watch a race.

    IMHO, if you really want to get people to get the track more money, then provide "just in time coverage" (IE: as soon as humanly possible given your situation) and put the video coverage on the front page of your online store front. Make it so that people can browse the store front while surfing through/ordering your parts. Now you have created the best of both worlds. You have given people the ability to view your race coverage while also enticing them to buy from YOU. To me, that is a WIN WIN situation!
    Gary Johnson

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
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    4,511
    I guess I was trying to say what Paul, Carsten and Gary said - just not in so many words

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Philly
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    210
    I like the idea of the roaming cams. I though it would be cool to do it more like a TV show with interviews, race commentators, slow-mo replays (for the crashes) etc. Hard to get track owners to by into as it requires more cameras, mixing software and skilled interviewers and race commentators as Paul mentioned it cost$.

    Love to hear what viewers expect when they turn in to existing live cams and what they would like to see. Am I too grandiose in my thinking. How about this a reality show based on "Slot Car Racers." Would you watch?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My other car is a Manta Ray

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    by a Great Lake
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    603
    Quote Originally Posted by slotcarsten View Post
    I beleive we moved high level slot-car racing forward, bigtime. I don't think the 250 spectator high mark from the event has been surpassed yet.
    It really raised the bar, and now aday we have come to expect big events to be webcast.
    .
    I'll let Cheater / Brassy chime in with the excact amount, but I believe the total was greater for his webcast of the Sano 3?


    As far as charging money I agree with Shontel's sponsorship method. Personally, I can't see paying for anything that I usually get bored with viewing after about 15-20 minutes. Most of the chat while viewing an event seems to be confusion about who, what, or when with something to do with or someone at the event? Face it slot racing is a participation hobby, not really a spectator event. Most of the watching in person usually revolves around talking to old friends at the track while watching the race. That being said I think Tracy should talk Chick into doing it as a Pay Per View for the Div 1 Nat's so he can tell us how it well it worked I'm betting it will also tell everyone to never think of doing it again
    NONE

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    White House, TN.
    Posts
    440
    I am just looking at it as another tool to make the Nats track more money.The track makes 40% on parts. The track can make 70% on pay per veiw.How many people would pay for it I don't know, nobody has try it.I know I would pay to watch and to help the track make more money if I could not make it to the race.Do away with the word (pay per view) and call it a entry fee from home to help the track because I couldn't make the race.Just trying to help the Tracks
    Last edited by Mr.GoFast; 05-30-2011 at 07:56 AM.
    Tracy Brown, Owner of:
    Go Fast Products - Slot Cars-R-Us "The Track"
    Visit Go Fast HERE!
    Visit our NEW Slot Cars-R-Us "The Track"!

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 1988
    Location
    Seattle Washington
    Posts
    369
    We did live webcam coverage and chat at the Flats. It was relatively simple to setup with just a couple webcams and a laptop. We also did webcam coverage at the Slugfest this past weekend. Its pretty low budget as we didn't have an extra person to man it and give play by play (we that run the place are also racers). It would be great to have great split screen color commentary for the entire event done by people who know slot car racing, but the best we can do is provide the live feeds and hopefully keep it from being a mystery. With a large budget for equipment we can do a better job, but until then we'll keep doing the best we can. We have no intention of charging for live coverage. We will continue to enhance our coverage as time goes on without any cost to racers interested in our events and raceway.
    Jim Radford
    Pacific Slot Car Raceways
    http://www.shoppscr.com
    Visit us on Facebook
    (253) 446-5039
    Host site of the 2014 & 2016 DIV II USRA Nationals

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cleveland, TN
    Posts
    709
    I have to agree with most of the people on this one. The live feed is nice for those of us who can't make the bigger events and if can catch the attention of other race fans then all the better. Trying to charge for it though would most likely keep almost everyone away. The way to make track owners more money is to get MORE PEOPLE involved. If I can watch Nascar, NHRA, SCCA, Formula 1,IndyCar, Motocross, even RC, in fact almost any kind of racing you can think of for free, why would I pay to watch a slot car race ? Just the opposite should be done in the form of coupons or offers to bring people to the tracks because the general public has no idea that slot cars still exist and are more fun than ever !

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    476
    If you just want to make the tracks more money get rid of all the back door selling and the manufactor packages coming into the raceway during race week.
    Railroad repairman!!!! WOOOO WOOOO

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    S.F/Seattle
    Posts
    604

    The voice of reason from the other half...................

    Quote Originally Posted by shontelh View Post
    As you all know, I enjoy posting race results, whether the race is at my track or not. In the past, I've been at home during the Nats, desperate to here some tidbit of info and results. I posted at PA's Nats, Doug's Nats, my Nats and I'll post at Chick's nats if he wants.

    For the 2010 Nats in Dallas....I charged more for class sponsorships than anyone had ever done before. BUT, it included benefits that's sponsors had never experienced before. Part of those benefits was their company name scrolling across the live video feed the entire race(s). I explained the process before hand but until racers/mfg's/sponsors actually saw it LIVE, they didn't really understand. Their banners were also in full view the entire 10 days of the Nats. 24 hrs a day you could see the banner of every sponsor. The exposure for companies was enormous.

    We broadcast every week. Its doesn't matter if there's 3 racers or 33. If one or two people stumble upon the live feed maybe they will visit a track, in whatever town they live. It's 3 clicks for me to start a broadcast. The web cam cost $60. Ustream is free.

    I do not agree with the philosophy "you should have been there". I don't look at the negative, I look at the positive. Will it help slot cars to broadcast the US Nationals??? Well it certainly won't hurt. Why wouldn't you want your track to be shown to the world?

    Racers travel from all over the world to race at the Nats. Their family and friends want to see the action. So by not having a live feed you punish the people that want to watch. Or you punish the racers that can't afford to travel or because of family or work. No racer would stay at home if they have an opportunity to attend the Nats.

    If the 2012 Nats are at Dallas Slot Cars...I assure you it the live feed, chat and live timing will be broadcast just as we did in 2010.

    Shontel
    A womans touch to save slot car racing and promote the hobby! Hmmmmmmm Are you reading this fella's?

    Shontel, I Love You!...................Just don't tell my wife!
    Last edited by backintheslot; 05-30-2011 at 05:45 PM.
    Support Your Local Raceway
    AKA "Big John"
    Bring us around

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    stockbridge, mi
    Posts
    760
    I personally like tracy's idea as a raceway owner. But as ive read through all these post its going back to the old thread about wats reasonable for entry fees? If you cant make it to a bog race but want to watch it at home the raceway owner not only looses out on entry fees but once again the racer thinks he/she should be able to watch from home for free? I do hope chick does this and can make enough off of it to at least pay the light bill for a month!!! I personally added up what its going to cost me to go to the nats for 10 days and i stopped at three grand so to sit at home and pay 10 or even 20 dollars would be a great deal but i can go and am going to be at the race, instead of sitting on my keyboard griping about what did or did not happen and who entered into which classes. I would of paid more to watch the worlds in the cz cause it would of costed more to go!!!!!!!!!!! thats just my opinion we belong to a rather expensive hobby that attracts some cheap people. NO disrespect to anyone thats just what ive seen in the last 3 years of racing and been racing for over 20years
    Give me my glue bottle!!!!!!!!!![B]

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    by a Great Lake
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mike1 View Post
    for a month!!! I personally added up what its going to cost me to go to the nats for 10 days and i stopped at three grand so to sit at home and pay 10 or even 20 dollars would be a great deal but i can go and am going to be at the race, instead of sitting on my keyboard griping about what did or did not happen and who entered into which classes.

    No a better deal would regardless if going to the Nat's or staying at home and watching it would be to go to your local raceway and race there that weekend. What percentage of slot racers ever go to a big race or the Nat's? Keeping the local track open will do more for the local racer than having some Nat's track pay their light bill.

    BTW: The Nat's comment is generic and no way directed toward Chick's or any past Div 1 or Div 2 hosting raceway.

    FWIW: Shontel is one of the nicest track owners I've ever met. Met her and some of the Dallas crew at a big retro race a couple of years ago. I was on vacation in Dallas during their move and called the raceway just to stop over. Since they were moving and not open they informed me what classes were being raced in Fort Worth that night and offered equipment for me to use if I was going to go race. That's hospitality! How many raceways would offer equipment for someone to use at their competitor or even acknowlege thier existance.
    NONE

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