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Thread: New NATS format

  1. #46
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    Nov 2004
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    Omaha, Nebraska
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    The 3 versions... what exactly are the differences between the first version (Port Jeff, Skidmarks, Buena Park, Chick's) and the second version (Koford's, Mid America's or Gugu's)? I was not aware of these two different versions.

    I think I know the differences in the Pilsen style version - where the radii are wider (red is like white and black is like purple), if that is correct... but I was not aware of the track built for David Key. What G# is that track??? (so we can add to the list) I'm assuming it is a private track - or will it be a club or commercial track?


    G1 through G10 are similar in terms of degrees of each turn (not banking), diameter of turns and length in the straights.
    G11 through G14 have less degrees (not banking) in the deadman and finger and more lenth in the straights. These are
    the most like Swiss's "ONE". I suspect that Stuart (G11), Roger (G12) and Mike (ONE) all agreed that this was the best
    way to build a King. The degrees in the turns of the newest King track version is similar to the first series of Kings, but
    the banking and turn diameters have increased. And the straights are shorter to compensate for the larger turns. David's
    King is G15 and Shontell's will be G16.
    Last edited by GaryG; 08-16-2011 at 08:22 AM.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
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    177
    The can worms has been opened for a long time now. Everyone wants to go faster at any cost. And it's the any cost that blows me away. With the cost of living and job problems for lots of people. I just got back into opens for one year now and I'm up to 10 open motors and 15 arms just so I can have a chance to compete, to place high, or win. To me it's all in car set-up ( whitch takes lots of money ) and it moves drivers skills back. I do like the newer and faster tracks that Gary is building now. But I do see Swiss's point of drivers skill and cost.
    Last edited by txdavid4777; 08-16-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  3. #48
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    Nov 2004
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    Omaha, Nebraska
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    [QUOTE=txdavid4777;275277]Everyone wants to go faster at any cost. And it's the any cost that blows me away.

    Gr.27 lite is an example of how you can go fast at a reasonable cost. The cost of 32 mag Gr.27 motors and expensive
    aluminum chassis that are disposable is killing Gr.27s. Gr.27 lite is nearly as fast and way cheaper. And the all main race
    format makes the 2 motor limit work.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    625
    Gary I think your suggestion with this new format is spot on! 4 classes, 4 days.

    Once again the racers have made their vote loud and clear in voting with their entry dollars, what they prefer and will participate in.

    The thread drift attempting to point fingers at problems is a another topic.
    Why make it tougher than it really is?
    e-mail: scrgeo@comcast.net

  5. #50
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    Nov 2004
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    Omaha, Nebraska
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    [QUOTE=RickB;275280]Gary I think your suggestion with this new format is spot on! 4 classes, 4 days.

    Once again the racers have made their vote loud and clear in voting with their entry dollars, what they prefer and will participate in.

    Rick,

    I started this thread after looking at the number of entries in each class this year.........it seems so obvious to me.
    I'm glad someone else sees it too! Unfortunately there are many racers out there that will not want to give up
    their "favorite" class eventhough the low NATS entries proves they are in the minority.
    Last edited by GaryG; 08-16-2011 at 10:01 AM.

  6. #51
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    Jun 2002
    Location
    Stratford CT
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    1,873
    Limiting motors, mains only and in the case of 27L spray glue increased popularity, why not at least try it with 15A and C12 ? I don't see the harm in trying. Everybody is convinced they have the perfect solution but reality always has a way of producing unforseen consequences. At least try some changes and then if they don't work you know definitively.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    3,382
    Agreed, 27L is a great idea.

    It somewhat equalizes the guys with deep pockets with the guys with shallow pockets.

    Granted the deep pocket guys will always spend for more bullets, but at least they
    are limited to only putting 2 in the cylinder for any one shootout.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  8. #53
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesketh View Post
    Limiting motors, mains only and in the case of 27L spray glue increased popularity, why not at least try it with 15A and C12 ? I don't see the harm in trying. Everybody is convinced they have the perfect solution but reality always has a way of producing unforseen consequences. At least try some changes and then if they don't work you know definitively.
    This is purely a discussion, not a proposal. I don't claim to have the answers, but responding to reality
    is logical to me.

  9. #54
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    May 2009
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    580
    Would a new novice type class like Spray Glue 20 help bring new racers into weekly racing. Then a small portion of the new guys would try monthly races. This would then send more wing racers to the NATS? Does any think that local programs somewhat direct the popularity of the lower speed NATS classes?

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Land of Excitement "Bensenville"
    Posts
    1,326
    I think that people just dont like spending time building motors anymore.

    That is the reason for success of sealed motor racing in scale and sealed motor racing in IRRA.

    More classes just like 27L and OMO may be the answer. I know it has me looking at wing racing again after about 10 year of racing them weekly at Dave Feidlers weekly Outlaw12 ,Box stock, GRP20.

    What wing racing needs is the promotion of wing racing around the country.

    Also the USRA should put rules together for a group F class and maybe a class that was like outlaw 12. These classes dont need to be raced at the nats. But would give a common rule set that raceway owners can use.

    Wing racing needs a glass that a new person can turn there $65 RTR into.

    Mike
    Michael Mazur
    Ruzam Racing
    Team ProSlot

  11. #56
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCHPartsExpress View Post
    Would a new novice type class like Spray Glue 20 help bring new racers into weekly racing. Then a small portion of the new guys would try monthly races. This would then send more wing racers to the NATS? Does any think that local programs somewhat direct the popularity of the lower speed NATS classes?
    Local racing is where it all begins and at our raceway Group F is our entry level wing car class.
    Last edited by GaryG; 08-16-2011 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Texas
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    26
    Quote Originally Posted by oldweirdherald View Post
    I think I know the differences in the Pilsen style version - where the radii are wider (red is like white and black is like purple), if that is correct... but I was not aware of the track built for David Key. What G# is that track??? (so we can add to the list) I'm assuming it is a private track - or will it be a club or commercial track?

    PK @ OWH
    David Key's track is a private track... rumor is that he may hold some regional races though.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Ashburn, VA
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    1,223
    Before you get too far out there adding classes, motors, chassis, etc, try to focus on keeping this as simple as possible for your racers. We don't need to add any more motors into the mix that can not be raced at higher levels. I would not add a Grp 20 class when we have ample 12 motors out there, including sealed ProSlot 12s (PS3000S). These motors could be raced, maybe rebuilt/sealed by a sanctioned rebuilder ala Retro racing, and when the racer is ready, can pull the seal off and go BS racing. Choose chassis that have upward application; stick with current BS chassis. There are too many appropriate chassis out there, but no racer wants to buy a chassis and have it rendered obsolite when he decides to move up. The biggest trick for beginning wing car racers is bodies. No real beginner wants to spend inexcess of $25 for a good body. If you can provide a locally produced, inexpensive, well winged body that works on the track with the kind of cars you are running, you'll have a hit...

  14. #59
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    Jun 2002
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    Retired National USRA Director
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    1,985
    Quote Originally Posted by mazur50 View Post
    I think that people just dont like spending time building motors anymore.

    That is the reason for success of sealed motor racing in scale and sealed motor racing in IRRA.

    More classes just like 27L and OMO may be the answer. I know it has me looking at wing racing again after about 10 year of racing them weekly at Dave Feidlers weekly Outlaw12 ,Box stock, GRP20.

    What wing racing needs is the promotion of wing racing around the country.

    Also the USRA should put rules together for a group F class and maybe a class that was like outlaw 12. These classes dont need to be raced at the nats. But would give a common rule set that raceway owners can use.

    Wing racing needs a glass that a new person can turn there $65 RTR into.

    Mike
    I think it's more like..... most people don't want to spend money to build motors.

    Interesting post though...... last week you were complaining about the scale side turning two classes into hand out motor classes which requires no building and in this thread you are promoting more classes that are "hands-off" the motors.

    It's all good Mike.
    "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"

  15. #60
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    JK Nation McHenry IL
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    327
    Ya like he said Mike! to build or not to build

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