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Thread: F1 Eurosport Project

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    305
    For the comparison test, I loaded Motor #2 with a Koford Hawk-style arm (also freshly refurbished by Bill Bugenis). Due to the very short nature of #2,the arm took a bit of massaging to get it to fit.

    First, the overall length of the Koford arm is some 0.070" longer than the Pro-Slot. Most of this is in the longer Koford saw-cut comm (~0.050"). The other part is the coil protector extension from the laminations (what is the real name for this?), at ~0.020". Here you see the difference in length and the arm dye on the Koford comm is to mark the length to be removed.


    To cut the comm down, I used my comm lathe. I installed extra spacers at the comm end so I could plunge cut the comm in small increments down to size. I then faced the comm with a Magnahone facing tool. The can end was also shortened with the facing tool. Here is the arm in the lathe, but note the comm is already cut to length (didn't think of taking a picture before...)


    Here are the arms now at the same length:


    Here is Motor #2 ready to go, shunted and broken-in. The laminations are not well centered on the magnets, but the motor doesn't exhibit any arm suck (self centring). Obviously this is not ideal but I hope it will still serve well for the test.


    Motor #2 w/Koford Arm (can) by pilmat, on Flickr

    It is not as much of a screamer on the power supply and only pulls 1.6A @ 4V (2.0A for motor #1 with the small magnets), but it revs up MUCH faster. Now both are ready for the Friday test!

    Any and all recommendations or comments are accepted
    Phil Matthews

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Central Ca.
    Posts
    75
    Phil I am so glad to see someone testing Kofords replacement Hawk arm. I emailed Stuart at Koford and told him he should Tag his arm so it can be used in club racing. Our club uses Puppydogs and Falcon 7 as our base motors so it would be nice to add Koford Hawks in the mix.
    Kofords Hawk replacement is the same wind as a Puppydog but with less timing so it would be very close fight.
    Thanks for the info/ We also race 1/24 scale F1 with Puppydog motors.
    I really like racing the mini motors they are very fast and on our flat track I have come within 6 laps of the Flexi/Contender/LMP track record using a Puppydog motor, for the price PD motor is hard to beat.
    Brian
    Go fast or go Home.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin Brian View Post
    Phil I am so glad to see someone testing Kofords replacement Hawk arm. I emailed Stuart at Koford and told him he should Tag his arm so it can be used in club racing. Our club uses Puppydogs and Falcon 7 as our base motors so it would be nice to add Koford Hawks in the mix.
    Kofords Hawk replacement is the same wind as a Puppydog but with less timing so it would be very close fight.
    Thanks for the info/ We also race 1/24 scale F1 with Puppydog motors.
    I really like racing the mini motors they are very fast and on our flat track I have come within 6 laps of the Flexi/Contender/LMP track record using a Puppydog motor, for the price PD motor is hard to beat.
    Brian
    I think mini motors are a great way forward for slot cars and the PD wind (75 turns of 31 gage) seems like a strong "starter" wind.

    Here is the test mule: X25 with a JK Audi Coupe body (ssssh...it's my wife's B-Production body, don't tell her). Initial gearing is 10/40 with .650 tires. Motor #2 is loaded in the mule, Motor #1 will be second out.

    Motor Testing Mule by pilmat, on Flickr

    Just a point of interest, the motor weights (#1 and #2 as set for the test with Koford arms):
    Stock Hawk: 21.3g (black EB, ceramic mags w/Alpha epoxied and balanced arm)
    Motor #1: 16.2g
    Motor #2: 16.9g

    Results tomorrow.
    Last edited by pilmat; 04-06-2012 at 10:47 AM.
    Phil Matthews

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    1,364
    Man those motors in that chassis reminds me of the X12's we used to run in strap can's with the JK JRL spring steel cars. You had to use a LOT of choke to be able to drive those cars, but they were still my favorite cars to drive!
    Gary Johnson

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Central Ca.
    Posts
    75
    Phil I was testing today I ran my contender JK11 and my Puppydog JK25 my Contender ran 4.68 and my puppydog ran 4.79. Both motors ran good my cars handle real well. I like driving the Puppydogs more. I ran Hawk motors till they were made illegal Hawk motors have a great power band! Both motors puppydogs and Hawks are the wave of the future I hope. I have 4 hours of racing on my PD motor and it runs faster now.
    I am sending it off for rebalancing and I hope it comes back faster!
    Go fast or go Home.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by GearBear View Post
    Man those motors in that chassis reminds me of the X12's we used to run in strap can's with the JK JRL spring steel cars. You had to use a LOT of choke to be able to drive those cars, but they were still my favorite cars to drive!
    I choke a Super Wasp in a Mack JRL, I couldn't imagine a 12 in there . The little strap motor does look really cool in the flexi chassis!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin Brian View Post
    Phil I was testing today I ran my contender JK11 and my Puppydog JK25 my Contender ran 4.68 and my puppydog ran 4.79. Both motors ran good my cars handle real well. I like driving the Puppydogs more. I ran Hawk motors till they were made illegal Hawk motors have a great power band! Both motors puppydogs and Hawks are the wave of the future I hope. I have 4 hours of racing on my PD motor and it runs faster now.
    I am sending it off for rebalancing and I hope it comes back faster!
    If you are sending the arm off, zap the mags and align the brush hoods. I've found both to really help the Hawk, and I imagine it will be just as beneficial in the PD.
    Phil Matthews

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    305
    Here's what I found out with my test last night.

    Gearing: first off the 10/40 on .650 tires is close to ideal gearing. To put the car in a more torque compromised state, I upped the pinion to 11. This gave Motor #2 considerably more "chatter" on power application. The tires are a low bite and on large rims (.450"), so low speed bite was an issue. Exactly what I wanted for the test

    #2 vs #1: remember that #2 is the set-up from the last race (~.380" long ceramic mags at full height) and #1 has cut down S7 ceramic mags, both with Koford arms.
    #2 gave the result I expected with on power chatter, especially exiting low speed tight corners (i.e dead-man on red). It was not enough to de-slot the car consistently but quite apparent.
    #1 (also geared 11/40) could now be "ham fisted" on the exit of corners with only the slightest bit of occasional chatter. Result achieved

    A couple of side notes:
    These motors sound SWEET! I've tested a Hawk in this car before and although it performs very well, the sound from these little straps is just awesome (what I think slot cars should sound like ).
    The gearing should be 10/40 for this track, as the heat and drivability were not ideal, plut it was almost a tenth faster with the 10. But the goal was testing and shifting the torque curve up into the driving band helped set the conditions. Both motors ran hot, no where near melt down temperature but hotter than I would like to race them for 3 minute heats.
    Both motors turned identical lap times with similar consistency, both in the 4.73-4.75 second range. #2 initially turned high 4.6's with the 10 tooth pinion.

    Next steps:
    Before dropping the mags out of #2, I will test the PS Hawk arm with high timing (coming soon!). I want some data on how that performs with the torque issue, but I might need to go to a 6 tooth pinion in the F1 car to try it.
    I will now look through my magnet batch (S7, Neo, Falcon 7 and Hawk) to find a nice combination for Motor #3. Something tells me a Gauss meter is in my immediate future...

    Lots of stuff left to play with
    Last edited by pilmat; 04-16-2012 at 07:05 AM. Reason: Delete ePay Q
    Phil Matthews

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Central Ca.
    Posts
    75
    Phil I have a zapper but I only zap them the first time I built the motors. Our rules allow Hawk setup with PD arms so I use hawk setup with matched magnets. then I hone them to .538 airgap it takes out that chatter on acceleration and makes the motor much smoother and easy to drive. Phil I have at least 10 pairs of these magnets they have a large range of strength from low 300 to almost 600 on my gauss meter so if you can get a set of matched mags it makes a big difference. Also the hawk set up is much better and has a more consistend hole size, Proslot holes are all over the place and I recomend soldering the can together for rigidity before honing the mags. Phil I build some of the fastest minimotors in or club. I have hours and month's of testing on these motors and I really like these motors.
    When our club made Hawks illegal it took me a month and 1/2 to get a puppy dog to perform on the same level a Hawk runs. Yesterday I tested and for the first time I had a puppydog run as fast as my fastest hawk motor. For the money a $15 Hawk is hard to beat!
    Go fast or go Home.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    305
    OK folks, some bad news (well in my opinion), the project is about to go into Slo-Mo for most of the summer I engineer Formula Ford (actually one will have a Honda ) cars over the summer and it tends to suck up a LOT of time and kills the potential for road trips. We are working at getting the Scale Pro (Tunkel UK Black) set-up here in Montreal, and when that does kick off I'll have a great local facility to develop. Until then, I'll tinker a bit and keep you posted on what I'm doing!

    Cheers
    Phil Matthews

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,201
    Good luck with the big toy's the f-1 project will be missed
    Motors By Mic B
    Balance By PoppaPower
    A Clean Slot Car is a Happy Slot Car
    Garden State ISRA Club Home of the Anaconda
    Tires by the Hermanator
    www.TheISrausa.com

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