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Thread: GT chassis for club racing-Help me choose

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    DeSoto Mo
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    GT chassis for club racing-Help me choose

    Our club races on 5 tracks. Mostly we run JK-24/25 and Falcon7 motors. Two tracks are short and flat, <65ft with tight turns. Another has some tight sections with a good sweeper on to a 20ft straight into a tight bank. Two of the other tracks are commercial builds with banked turns. One of these has shorter straights (10-13ft) and the other has the equivalent of a small hill climb straight, big bank into a hairpin.
    So we are starting a 1/24 Open(motor) GT(body) class. I am considering getting a Bulldog3, ASP4 or S7 GT to try but not sure which would work in my club. I am more interested in performance on the faster commercial style tracks. With the motors, not sure if just using a "Screamer" Falcon7 would be enough. Thought a Contender, S-Wasp or S16C may be good to try. I am not sure what kind of RPM these motors need to run. The Falcons we run are geared 11-34/37 with .730/.750 tires.
    Please help guide me and include why you would run your recommendation and what you think a good starting point for gearing would be.
    Have a Great Day
    Mark

    "Racing is life........Everything else,,,,,,,,,, is just waiting" Steve McQueen in Le Mans

    "There are only two things in this world that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them." Mark H

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    446
    I would run a ps euro with a 12 arm for a lightweight budget motor.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2012
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    What about those chassis I have listed? What would be a good one for these smaller tracks?
    Have a Great Day
    Mark

    "Racing is life........Everything else,,,,,,,,,, is just waiting" Steve McQueen in Le Mans

    "There are only two things in this world that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them." Mark H

  4. #4
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    Sep 2011
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    Long Island,N.Y.
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    967
    I use an old Mosseti and it works nice but no racing flat tracks around here.Looking for a club track on LI that runs flats.Anyone know of any?

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Ventura ,ca 93001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark H View Post
    Our club races on 5 tracks. Mostly we run JK-24/25 and Falcon7 motors. Two tracks are short and flat, <65ft with tight turns. Another has some tight sections with a good sweeper on to a 20ft straight into a tight bank. Two of the other tracks are commercial builds with banked turns. One of these has shorter straights (10-13ft) and the other has the equivalent of a small hill climb straight, big bank into a hairpin.
    So we are starting a 1/24 Open(motor) GT(body) class. I am considering getting a Bulldog3, ASP4 or S7 GT to try but not sure which would work in my club. I am more interested in performance on the faster commercial style tracks. With the motors, not sure if just using a "Screamer" Falcon7 would be enough. Thought a Contender, S-Wasp or S16C may be good to try. I am not sure what kind of RPM these motors need to run. The Falcons we run are geared 11-34/37 with .730/.750 tires.
    Please help guide me and include why you would run your recommendation and what you think a good starting point for gearing would be.
    ****The jk x-25 is a great starting point for stamp steel chassis, with a falcon7 and or hawk, a good base to gear would be 11-37 for flat tracks. As you go to bigger banked tracks might have to go up 1-2 tooth on pinnion but the 37 spurs should work nicely...

    For your open 12 a bulldog 3 or pmp or bsp 2010 chassis seem to work the best...I am still a huge fan of the asp 4, still works good and is still cheaper than the rest... a good motor for this class is a cahoza setup with a koford or proslot arm. gearing for this class on flat track should be good at 7-42 72 pitch gears..gives the car smoothness and revs... For a hillclimb bank track style would start with 8-37 64 pitch and work from there...why I would run these set ups is because they work, and thru lots of trial and error...
    "MAY THE FORCE BE IN THE FINGER"
    "Theres no banks in heaven,spend it all on slotcars"
    "WINGS ARE FOR FAIRIES- GTP RACING RULES"

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the input Stoneman. What you say makes sense to me. We are running the gear ratio with the falcons pretty close to your recommendation. I will place an order and let you know how it goes.
    Have a Great Day
    Mark

    "Racing is life........Everything else,,,,,,,,,, is just waiting" Steve McQueen in Le Mans

    "There are only two things in this world that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them." Mark H

  7. #7
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    For a hillclimb bank track style would start with 8-37 64 pitch and work from there...why I would run these set ups is because they work, and thru lots of trial and error...

    This is the gearing i use on our 140'Hillclimb with a JK-11 and Hawk motor. The JK handles very nicely on this track with JK tires.
    For the c cans i run 8-38/39 64 pitch depending on the motor.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Fall City, WA
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    1,364
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark H View Post
    Our club races on 5 tracks. Mostly we run JK-24/25 and Falcon7 motors. Two tracks are short and flat, <65ft with tight turns. Another has some tight sections with a good sweeper on to a 20ft straight into a tight bank. Two of the other tracks are commercial builds with banked turns. One of these has shorter straights (10-13ft) and the other has the equivalent of a small hill climb straight, big bank into a hairpin.
    So we are starting a 1/24 Open(motor) GT(body) class. I am considering getting a Bulldog3, ASP4 or S7 GT to try but not sure which would work in my club. I am more interested in performance on the faster commercial style tracks. With the motors, not sure if just using a "Screamer" Falcon7 would be enough. Thought a Contender, S-Wasp or S16C may be good to try. I am not sure what kind of RPM these motors need to run. The Falcons we run are geared 11-34/37 with .730/.750 tires.
    Please help guide me and include why you would run your recommendation and what you think a good starting point for gearing would be.
    Can you post the actual rules you need to follow?

    For the first class, I would start with the X25 center section and put the C11 .030" 2 piece pans on it. I might even go with the .025" pans, but that is far harder to setup correctly.

    For the "Open GT" class, I'm thinking Eurosport... IE: Horky, Mack, Castricone, Dubrick, PMP, etc Eurosport chassis with a Eurosport style motor (IE: Camen smallblock Cobalt multi mag motor with a Valiko 21T24.5 arm) geared 6/45 in 80p. Nothing else could touch it. But that is easily a $700 car! See http://www.shoppscr.com/rtr-cars/124...dy-sseurohorky

    Really though, it doesn't sound like you have a good rule sheet to go from.

    The Bulldog 1 2 and 3, ASP4, PMP GT12, and Saunders 2010 GT12 chassis are all great handling GT12 chassis that would rival most of the "Open 12" chassis out there. I've had all of them (except the BD3, I have a 1 and a 2). Last weekend, an ASP4 set the GT12 lap record on the Twister. So even though it is an "Old" style chassis, it still has a place. I ran an original version PMP chassis last weekend, and at the Wade 500 (I finished 4th from the B Main after a dismal qualifying). For me, the Bulldog chassis is the most forgiving to drive of them all. So, if you are going GT12 it might be the best for a new racer to start with. It also seems to be the almost as bulletproof as the ASP4. The only thing I don't like about the ASP is that it either works or it doesn't. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what it likes. I've never had the Bulldogs do that. They always seem to work. And you can add or remove pans to tune the car to the conditions. The original PMP GT12 chassis is a great chassis, but not one a beginner should attempt to assemble IMHO. Having said that, once assembled correctly it can be a great chassis and likes "looser" tracks better than the Bulldog. When it works, it can be very fast. The Saunders 2010 GT12 is also a great chassis. My only complaint with it is that it can parallelogram on you if you hit the wall wrong and you have to disassemble the chassis to fix it taking you out of the race. This won't happen with the Bulldogs. BUT, the Saunders is probably one of the fastest GT12 chassis out there right now.

    For C-Can motors, I would likely go with a Proslot .540" diameter 45 degree X12 arm in a Cahoza UL setup with T2 beveled mags (if legal) honed to .560". I would then gear the car to 7/42 in 72P. Put a ball bearing in the can end of the motor. This will give you a very drivable car with any of the GT12 style chassis starting the race on .700" tires (depending on clearance rules).
    Gary Johnson

  9. #9
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    Ventura ,ca 93001
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    Quote Originally Posted by basserx View Post
    For a hillclimb bank track style would start with 8-37 64 pitch and work from there...why I would run these set ups is because they work, and thru lots of trial and error...

    This is the gearing i use on our 140'Hillclimb with a JK-11 and Hawk motor. The JK handles very nicely on this track with JK tires.
    For the c cans i run 8-38/39 64 pitch depending on the motor.
    ****For the c-can class 8-37 would be a starting point if running a falcon the smallest pinnion to start is with 11 tooth and go up on pinnion from there!!!---the 37 and 38 spurs seems to work the best for both classes when running 64 pitch gears... an 8 tooth on a hawk on a hill climb will peak out way way too quick and wont have any top end to get down the long straights....
    "MAY THE FORCE BE IN THE FINGER"
    "Theres no banks in heaven,spend it all on slotcars"
    "WINGS ARE FOR FAIRIES- GTP RACING RULES"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    DeSoto Mo
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    Wow, lots of good info. Thank you. I ahve two ASPs on the way. Going to try one with the lightweight 12 motor and one with a Super Wasp Light Weight. Doing both because in the back of my mind I think the 12 will be just a bit too much. We will see.
    Have a Great Day
    Mark

    "Racing is life........Everything else,,,,,,,,,, is just waiting" Steve McQueen in Le Mans

    "There are only two things in this world that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them." Mark H

  11. #11
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    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ventura ,ca 93001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark H View Post
    Wow, lots of good info. Thank you. I ahve two ASPs on the way. Going to try one with the lightweight 12 motor and one with a Super Wasp Light Weight. Doing both because in the back of my mind I think the 12 will be just a bit too much. We will see.
    ****When setting up the asp , make sure to get that front end as low as you can, also play with piano wire in front of the motor to control back pan movement. I have always like a little .032 piece of wire to min. up and down pan movement a little...other than that the chassis is really solid...gear it for flat track with 7-42 for 12 motor and maybe try 8-44 for super wasp,depending how motor revs..!!!
    "MAY THE FORCE BE IN THE FINGER"
    "Theres no banks in heaven,spend it all on slotcars"
    "WINGS ARE FOR FAIRIES- GTP RACING RULES"

  12. #12
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Long Island,N.Y.
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    967
    Mark,
    How about some pictures of these club tracks.Would love to see what's going on in the club world.
    Some pics of the GT 12 cars would be cool also.

    Sam.

  13. #13
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    Jan 2012
    Location
    DeSoto Mo
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    I will get some pics and post them. We just raced on a track Wed night that has been Rebuilt and modified. Original build was early 80'selieve. Be patient, it will take a few weeks to get these together. Unfortuanetly for me, the closest track to me is a hour away. Most are closer to 1.5 hours one way.
    Have a Great Day
    Mark

    "Racing is life........Everything else,,,,,,,,,, is just waiting" Steve McQueen in Le Mans

    "There are only two things in this world that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them." Mark H

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    48
    an 8 tooth on a hawk on a hill climb will peak out way way too quick and wont have any top end to get down the long straights....

    That was a typo or wrong car?.....I'm running a 10/37- 64 on the JK-11 /Hawk


    OP...I've never tried a lightweight 12 in an ASP, I would think it would work just fine after getting the correct
    gearing,but give it a shot and let me know.

  15. #15
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    Jan 2012
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    DeSoto Mo
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    OK, I ran two G12 ASPs both with the same Corvette GT body small spoiler/wing-low down force. One with lightweight G12 and one with lightweight SuperWasp. See the Purple track below, a Chris Dads build. The SuperWasp was fast but I was spinning the wheels most the way down the straights. It was pretty easy to drive and smooth but the rear traction even in the bank was too low. I tried glue and it was better for a few laps. I am thinking some lead needs to be added. Is it good or bad to add to the side pans? Seems like NO would be the answer.
    The G12 gear mesh was not right. That 80 pitch has a very fine line between good and bad. So I did not get to test that setup. Based on the SuperWasp results, I think it would have been WAY TOO much for the track.
    Perhaps a heavier chassis would be better. What do you think?

    The other smaller track shown is the shortest one that I run at 65ft. It is smooth and very demanding of the driver. Lots of both fun and frustration. We do not run the GT12 on this track, mostly JK-25 and Falcon7. Which brings me to another question. My JK-25, Falcon7 @10-37 w .750 tires just does not want to corner consistently. Now I fully understand it is probably in my finger more than the car because I can string a dozen laps or so where the car is pretty fast through the corners but it is always very tight. Sometimes it will lift the guide out of the slot and pirouette about the outside rear tire. I tried narrow tires, too loose and lots of chatter instead of smooth drift. I have some lead behind the guide (two thin 3/8 x 1/2") and I have two pieces at the rear of each side pan. That did seem to help.
    Any thoughts on that?
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    Have a Great Day
    Mark

    "Racing is life........Everything else,,,,,,,,,, is just waiting" Steve McQueen in Le Mans

    "There are only two things in this world that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them." Mark H

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