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Thread: Braid gains. How deep is too deep

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119

    Braid gains. How deep is too deep

    Ok, bought the router bit cleaned out the glue, most of it so far. And im worried im going to go too deep. So far im about .045 deep, but i bought magnabraid Which is only about .020 thick. I feel to get the gains nice and true i still need to go a bit more. After primer and paint, with no filler, How Deep Is Too Deep? Including the braid .020

    If i do need to fill and re router the gains. What filler is recomended? Is plastic wood brand filler ok for small spots?
    Thank you everybody for all of the answers so far
    And thank you in advance...
    Rock....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    301
    All I can say is good luck rockbuilt. I had the same deal when rebuilding my oval that I'm still in the process of doing. I would ask a dozen questions and got no help other then to look at the resourses on the forum. No one told me to use a detail router with an really small base plate for routering till after the track was already damaged. If your routerint at 0.045 your already going to deep when I measured my gains with a digital caliper tool I was roughly at 0.032 and that was too deep 0.030 braid really measures 0.020 or 0.025 thickness and 0.045 braid really measures 0.030 or 0.035 thickness to compensate for my error I ran a bunch of paint in the gains and sanded the entire surface with an automotive DA and I still have roughly a 0.010 gap from the top of the braid to the surface of the track. Trust me I've tried every solution from bondo, tightbond wood glue, painted many coats of paint, tried wood filler, and some wooden powder solution that you mix with water this one turned out really bad. The best solution I've found so far is two part epoxy.
    So to answer your question you want to be give or take right around 0.005 from the top of the braid to the surface of the track. When routering it is better to just barely scrape the old glue and wipe the rest with goo gone or some other type solution.
    I only have one 8ft section, the srt track piece left cause it was the track section I kept doing all the experimenting on due to no help till after I had already done the damage the other 5 sections of my oval I painted 5 coats of paint in the gains to build them up a little. Since I did all the experimenting on the srt track section I kept going deeper and deeper with the gain so to repair that I'm useing the epoxy for build up but its a tedious project since I cant find any lexan to put in the slot I had to resort to a rubber bondo spreader and I'm only able to do about 3 inches at a time. In two days time I've almost got 1 side of one lane done. Good luck with your project and be ready for some aching body parts and some new grey hairs...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119
    Try cove base rubber moulding to put in the slot
    It's cheep and comes in 4 or 5 ft pcs
    Thank you for the reply. I guess I asked a loaded question
    What brand epoxy are you using?
    I have seen past threads saying bondo will match the
    Expantion and contraction rate better
    What are your thoughts
    Again thank you for your reply and your input its much needed

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    grove city ohio
    Posts
    201
    Hello:
    Contact Larry Moyer at 330 646 3291, Bristolville Raceway. He has made a few repairs on our 155' flat track w/ NO problems at all, I think he uses something called "Wes Systems". He has been working w/ high end furniture and antiques his whole life, if anyone knows, it would be him.
    Thanks Ron

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    126
    Most tracks, that I have run, are in the .020 to .035 braid depth range. I ran 1 that was .010 and he was a stickler about chassis clearance of .060 and NOTHING below the chassis like gears. Gears, specially the metal, can really tear up braid. Tires can too but will take longer.

    OLPHRT
    PHIL I.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119
    Thank you guys
    I am well acquainted with the west system of epoxy, I didn't think
    It was used by us slot guys. It's good stuf

    On that braid depth. Was that track surface to the top of the
    Braid or the depth of the empty braid gain?
    I was thinking if the distance from the track surface to the
    Top of the braid was say .015 or .020 I could add a washer
    Shim to the guide flag to set the chassis clearance.
    Is that too much? Too deep?
    Thank you guys for helping me talk this through. Better
    To find out now then put the magnabraid down and find out
    It's not right

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,511
    My only fear of having to add washers to the guide to make contact is what happens when the braid on the guide flag flares out too wide?

    We have set out braid so that it is 10 to 12 thou below the track surface
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119
    Ok.... Thanks zip. I now have a goal
    Now the question is..... What is the best method of adding
    About .025 to .030 to the braid gains
    I have had some carpenter buries suggest veneer.
    Glue down the veneer and rock and roll
    I've heard bondo ( good and bad )
    And now the West Sysyem Epoxy
    I am also a mad boat head and have a bunch of resto's
    Under my belt, but epoxy is going to be labor intensive
    Any suggestions or thoughts fellas??????

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119
    Check this out, i went on veneer suppiles . Com they have edge banding veneer rolls 500 ft long 15/16 wide for $35.00
    The description says .020 thick fleece backed (? I guess to hold the glue). What do you guys think ??????
    I would buy the non-glued and use contact cement and the braid roller to press it into the slot. At 15/16 I can have plenty of room to trim. I can make an aluminum block with a razor blade to trim it to 1/4. I would have to cut notches to make the turns smooth. I think this would make a smother bed over an epoxy.
    Please keep in mind i'm only tossing ideas at the wall, lets see what sticks........what do you guys think????

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119
    Hi novice, are you trying to build up .005 to .010
    Or more? I could see doing that with epoxy but I need
    .020 +

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    301
    Its all prefrence I had a huge post here a minute ago but owh muffed up I'm right around that 0.005-0.010-0.015 the epoxy I'm useing is general purpouse from walmart for about 2.25 a syringe. But you can get it at lowes or home depot. You can go to slotcarcorner.com on the left side of the screen navigate to track building their are pictures of the router they used and they sell epoxy also cause they used epoxy on their commercial track as well if you write to him he'll tell you they didnt do the entire track but used it in spots and its been holding very well. I put bondo an many cars regardless of how thick or thin you lay it over time it will spider and crack away. I've used epoxy on a great number of model airplanes and the stuff is just as hard now as it was when I first glued it and its had 15% alchol fuel all over it during flight. Both router easy enough compared to the tighbond wood glue, wood filler, or ultra strength powder.
    Its all prefrence since its your track, other things to consider is you can use vhb tape instead of contact cement vhb comes in 0.005 and 0.010but just like the braid bolth are thinner then advertised, every coat of paint is roughly 0.001 so 5 coats is 0.005. So heres a little figure for you a gain that is 0.045, 5 coats of paint =0.040 then use 0.010 vhb tape roughly = 0.032 then braid depending on which thickness you use (0.030) roughly = 0.007 from the top of the braid to the surface or (0.045) roughly = 0.002
    Obviously you dont want the braid flush with the surface of the track as mentioned above the tires and gears will tear it up.Its all prefrence I had a huge post here a minute ago but owh muffed up I'm right around that 0.005-0.010-0.015 the epoxy I'm useing is general purpouse from walmart for about 2.25 a syringe. But you can get it at lowes or home depot. You can go to slotcarcorner.com on the left side of the screen navigate to track building their are pictures of the router they used and they sell epoxy also cause they used epoxy on their commercial track as well if you write to him he'll tell you they didnt do the entire track but used it in spots and its been holding very well. I put bondo an many cars regardless of how thick or thin you lay it over time it will spider and crack away. I've used epoxy on a great number of model airplanes and the stuff is just as hard now as it was when I first glued it and its had 15% alchol fuel all over it during flight. Both router easy enough compared to the tighbond wood glue, wood filler, or ultra strength powder.
    Its all prefrence since its your track, other things to consider is you can use vhb tape instead of contact cement vhb comes in 0.005 and 0.010but just like the braid bolth are thinner then advertised, every coat of paint is roughly 0.001 so 5 coats is 0.005. So heres a little figure for you a gain that is 0.045, 5 coats of paint =0.040 then use 0.010 vhb tape roughly = 0.032 then braid depending on which thickness you use (0.030) roughly = 0.007 from the top of the braid to the surface or (0.045) roughly = 0.002
    Obviously you dont want the braid flush with the surface of the track as mentioned above the tires and gears will tear it up.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    301
    Since my first post I used 1 tube on 1 gain from end to end on an 8ft section of track, instead of waiting for the epoxy to completely setup before removing the bondo spreader I am just sliding it along in the slot, the epoxy self levels so instead of having the leggs on the track piece so its angled I have it flat on the ground it took me about 6 hrs to do 1 side of 1 lane with many breaks inbetween useing 3 different bondo spreaders, this way while the epoxy is drying on one I slip in a clean one by the time get to the third spreader the epoxy has setup on the first spreader and I can scrape it off with a razor.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cleveland, TN
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by rockbuilt11779 View Post
    Check this out, i went on veneer suppiles . Com they have edge banding veneer rolls 500 ft long 15/16 wide for $35.00
    The description says .020 thick fleece backed (? I guess to hold the glue). What do you guys think ??????
    I would buy the non-glued and use contact cement and the braid roller to press it into the slot. At 15/16 I can have plenty of room to trim. I can make an aluminum block with a razor blade to trim it to 1/4. I would have to cut notches to make the turns smooth. I think this would make a smother bed over an epoxy.
    Please keep in mind i'm only tossing ideas at the wall, lets see what sticks........what do you guys think????
    I don't know how it will work but youncan also get the veneer without the backing, usually at a wood supplier that specializes in hard woods.
    Alan Ingram

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ronkonkoma N.Y.
    Posts
    119
    Thank you Alan, I am suprised I have not gotten more feed back on the veneer idea
    I'm going to go with it. I will try to figure out how to post pix
    My track is too big to use putty in my opinion
    The foot print is about 35 x 13

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    171
    Maybe contacting a professional track builder might be the way to go. Sure it costs. Seems more cost effective to me. Or buy a new track......
    CK DaBoer

    Knocked you out of the slot!

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