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Thread: Usra vs. Isra

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Usra vs. Isra

    im going to try to make this short and sweet!

    Over the years USRA entries at national events have plummeted, ISRA seems they have a very strict way about doing things and have been very sucsessfull over the years, why not try to take some of their ideas and put them with the USRA? It doesnt make any sense to keep doing what has not been working, its time to start testing the waters with different ideas/rules
    9x National Champion

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    fairfield ca.
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    339
    a wise man told me that "he who follows will never lead". All of the racing countries had and still have their own set of rules. once a year the best of the best through out the world get together with a common set of rules to compete in 4 specific classes. the body rules came about when certain countries had bodies that were not available or known about by other countries. I remember 2 or 3 years ISRA adopted USRA body rules for 124 euro. these were JK LMP's. the only difference was the rear body height. we were 1 5/8 and they were less than 1.5 inches if memory serves me correctly. fast forward to now. the only countries that use ISRA rules (besides us)are Brazil, since that's where they are made and some of the CZ influenced countries. Italy , Spain, UK and most other countries use their own rules with their own bodies. As a leading country, we should do what best serves US. To Follow ISRA, we are slighting our own Manufactures like JK, FastOnes, and Parma when it comes to body shells. since the body is inexpensive, for the very few that wish to compete internationally it is a small change to use the common body for that race. Lets lead again!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    562
    This brings up a good point. I don't want to hijack a thread but this is along the same line, why don't local tracks follow USRA so we can go to more than one track with our equipment or needing a ton of equipment? I agree with Chubby ISRA has 4 well thought out stable classes for flat track racing. What's wrong with USRA running A Production? It's a great car & affordable and only allowed .518 arms. Put most any body on it and it's more than fast enough for any weekly racing program.

    USRA needs to be leaders so local tracks follow with a stable racing platform. This, I'm going to change because I want "my racers" to not be able to go anywhere mentality is hurting slots. Face it, all these rules to help the new guys are simply not working. Cheap motors cost more than a good C can that will last years & years. Slots don't have an attraction problem they have a "RETENTION" problem. Once you get where you are a not a "wallbasher" it starts getting boring at the local level because there are usually lower skilled racers there. Rules should be well thought out with an eye on stability and increasing participation across the range of experience levels.

    There are a lot of guys that run 1/32 cars & HO's but never enter a raceway. They run flat-ish layouts and most local tracks are still intimidating older banked tracks with long straights that make the cheap motors a problem not a solution. Very few local tracks run 1/32 classes..... yet that is a HUGE source of racers. Then on top of that everyone is trying to make things equal and spec things like gear ratios. The racer can't tinker and if he has a bum motor / motors / stays legal he's stuck, then gets frustrated after a while then simply quits.

    Are raceways better off with a few racers all buying new stuff or are they better off with lots of racers maintaining stuff and racing? I know lots of people usually attract more people and that is one form of success.

    I'm interested in some input from Europe on how their mostly club tracks do it. They are simply doing it better than we are. I know they run 1/32 classes.
    Why do I do this to myself?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    20
    The USRA Nats is one race a year. In this country you can race whatever you want, under whatever rules you want. Most are loosely based around the USRA while others around ISRA. ISRA/USA runs classes utilizing bodies from all manufacturers except Eurosport classes. The USRA adopted the ISRA rule set for euro classes to basically simplify things just like the rest of the world. Any manufacturer can submit bodies to ISRA for vote. The fact that we use ISRA rules specifically for USRA euro classes in this country is the same reason the rest of the world does. To race under a common rule set. There is a difference between leading and going against the grain. The ISRA rules were adopted because USRA rules of the past in regards to eurosport were against what the rest of the world was doing. Same reason why the Olympics have one set of rules. You don't lead by having your own exclusive rules, you lead by excelling under one common standardized rule set. It is the only true measure of performance.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    625
    Two things come to my mind, first it should not be be USRA VS ISRA it should read USRA/ISRA. The main thing is stability and not make racers retool every couple years and obsolete the program they have built up. Trickle down technology is what really harmed Groups, if you don't learn from your past errors, guess what?

    What is under the shell should be exactly the same, so the only needed changes would be a $6 body, since they are disposable anyway......
    Why make it tougher than it really is?
    e-mail: scrgeo@comcast.net

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    grove city ohio
    Posts
    201
    Rick:
    You are a very wise man! Just about the time a racer gets his program sorted out, something gets changed and he has to start all over again. During the 10 years I had the Tri State ISRA/USA series going, nothing really changed except the body list, making it Very affordable for the racers. Stability is really important for a successful series.
    Thanks, Ron

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Spartanburg, SC
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallbasher View Post
    This brings up a good point. I don't want to hijack a thread but this is along the same line, why don't local tracks follow USRA so we can go to more than one track with our equipment or needing a ton of equipment? I agree with Chubby ISRA has 4 well thought out stable classes for flat track racing. What's wrong with USRA running A Production? It's a great car & affordable and only allowed .518 arms. Put most any body on it and it's more than fast enough for any weekly racing program.

    USRA needs to be leaders so local tracks follow with a stable racing platform. This, I'm going to change because I want "my racers" to not be able to go anywhere mentality is hurting slots. Face it, all these rules to help the new guys are simply not working. Cheap motors cost more than a good C can that will last years & years. Slots don't have an attraction problem they have a "RETENTION" problem. Once you get where you are a not a "wallbasher" it starts getting boring at the local level because there are usually lower skilled racers there. Rules should be well thought out with an eye on stability and increasing participation across the range of experience levels.

    There are a lot of guys that run 1/32 cars & HO's but never enter a raceway. They run flat-ish layouts and most local tracks are still intimidating older banked tracks with long straights that make the cheap motors a problem not a solution. Very few local tracks run 1/32 classes..... yet that is a HUGE source of racers. Then on top of that everyone is trying to make things equal and spec things like gear ratios. The racer can't tinker and if he has a bum motor / motors / stays legal he's stuck, then gets frustrated after a while then simply quits.

    Are raceways better off with a few racers all buying new stuff or are they better off with lots of racers maintaining stuff and racing? I know lots of people usually attract more people and that is one form of success.

    I'm interested in some input from Europe on how their mostly club tracks do it. They are simply doing it better than we are. I know they run 1/32 classes.
    Just found this thread. You are spot on and I echo your desire for USRA compliant racetracks.


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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
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    803
    I don't know when it changed but in the early 90s when I had my track in the Mid-Atlantic series, almost all the classes we ran, at every track in the series, came under USRA rules. There were two that didn't, Flexi NASCAR and Outlaw 12. The core classes all followed the USRA rule book for the simple reason that if a track in the series managed to get a Nats all the local racers would be legal to run the USRA classes. It would increase local participation. If your running classes that don't comply with the USRA rules and a local track or even a track within 100-200 miles happens to get a Nats, those local racers probably won't make the trip if they have to build all new stuff. I prefer the ISRA/USA over the USRA for two reasons, rules stability, and allowing anything made for slot car racing, previously approved and discontinued items, to be used and not junked. If a new item is produced and it is truly better than the item it's replacing let the racers make that determination by using or not using the part. Not by being forced to purchase new items just because the rules makers have out dated the old ones. My problems with the USRA is it's inability to correct the rule book, even typos, without a majority vote at a Nats, the racer eligibility chart, and the entire paying membership cannot vote on rules changes only those members attending the Nats. No wonder the USRA is going down hill. Hopefully things will change in the future.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Spartanburg, SC
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    Ok....after reading the thread and looking over the rules, I like the ISRA USA track rules. Good detail on marshaling, inspecting, and gluing. I'm probably going to adopt the track regulations and self impose them at Upstate.
    As I'm understanding the race and car regulations, ISRA USA is very narrowly organized around 4 specific classes. So USRA is more comprehensive than ISRA?
    Am I getting it so far?


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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Norcross, GA
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by RonFX View Post
    Rick:
    Stability is really important for a successful series.
    Absolutely! The IRRA BoD understands this.

  11. #11
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    Jan 2014
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    Spartanburg, SC
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    It's amazing to me that whether it's USRA or ISRA, nether want to take the lead and organize for broader authority. As much as all of these post over the ages ask for it, none take it up.


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  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Great Valley,NY
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    1,227
    ISRA is Scale classes on Flat Tracks only.
    Worldwide set of rules.

    USRA is Division 1- Wing Cars on banked tracks.
    Nats always on a modern King because all the serious Wing Guys have cars designed for that.

    USRA Division 2 is more diverse, Scale Cars of various styles on both banked and flat tracks.

    USRA is the oldest Slot Car Racing organization in the USA.
    Rules are submitted and voted on by the membership, not by an empirical BOD.

    In my humble opinion, I would find a couple simple classes that you can sell to your local racers and work on growing a strong weekly racing program. Keep the cars simple and inexpensive to start with and make sure to help the slow guys so they don't get frustrated and quit.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Spartanburg, SC
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    277
    Quote Originally Posted by La Cucaracha View Post
    ISRA is Scale classes on Flat Tracks only.
    Worldwide set of rules.

    USRA is Division 1- Wing Cars on banked tracks.
    Nats always on a modern King because all the serious Wing Guys have cars designed for that.

    USRA Division 2 is more diverse, Scale Cars of various styles on both banked and flat tracks.

    USRA is the oldest Slot Car Racing organization in the USA.
    Rules are submitted and voted on by the membership, not by an empirical BOD.

    In my humble opinion, I would find a couple simple classes that you can sell to your local racers and work on growing a strong weekly racing program. Keep the cars simple and inexpensive to start with and make sure to help the slow guys so they don't get frustrated and quit.
    Thanks, that's a good breakdown. Seems there are good small groupings but no large umbrella most can fit under.

    As for the local racing, we're doing ok. Round tracks are sometimes busy and sometimes not. Drag racing is usually busy.
    I'm trying to break free from the "local track" paradigm and connect with a larger organization but I'm guess I've pushed as hard as I can and nothing is emerging. We need a slot car version of the NCAA or a NASCAR to regulate and promote the hobby and industry.

    But I guess I'm a minority opinion or we would have one.


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  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Great Valley,NY
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    This years Wing Car Nats is in Georgia.
    You should build some stuff to race and check it out.
    This would give you the chance to meet other people involved in the hobby and share your ideas.
    Group F Wing cars are a really fun and inexpensive class that you might be able to start running at your track.
    Good luck and have fun.
    Last edited by La Cucaracha; 01-25-2016 at 08:29 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Spartanburg, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by La Cucaracha View Post
    This years Wing Car Nats is in Georgia.
    You should build some stuff to race and check it out.
    This would give you the chance to meet other people involved in the hobby and share your ideas.
    Group F Wing cars are a really fun and inexpensive class that you might be able to start running at your track.
    Good luck and have fun.
    Can you give me a link to anything dealing with those wing car nats? I'm not aware of them.


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