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Thread: Wing Nats at something other then a Gerding speedbowl.

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Michigan
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    663
    Ron, it's about time you rang in. Let the fun begin. Congrats on your trip to Ohio. Congrats also to Rich one of our locals. Good to see people traveling to race.
    Skidmarks
    230 S. Averill
    Flint, Mi 48506

  2. #62
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    Feb 2005
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    3,395
    Quote Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
    Took me a while to figure it out but after going back and looking at the results that Bent and the PJ guys had at the 2003 Nats, obviously the track was junk cause they certainly couldn't have sucked that bad.....;-) and Swiss, you looked good marshaling the main though if I recall I had to admonish you for running your mouth while performing your duties.......
    Roman, you take the bump/ crazy mojo in the deadman too personally. You didn't make the track.It's not your fault.

    If there is a bump on my track, it is my fault, because I made it.

    I marshaled the Deadman in the Pro Main because I volunteered for it, not because I had to.

    I knew it was the hardest turn and I was the best marshal not racing.

    I could of sulked that I got eliminated, but instead I stepped up to the plate and took the busiest turn and did the best I could possibly do.

    Marlon Reed, unsolicted, commented months later that it was the best marshaling job he had ever seen.

    Despite it being star-studded, the Pro Main was the sloppiest I ever saw.

    I never marshaled so many cars in 40 minutes.

    If Beuf, Chicky, Watson, Horky, Korec, Schone and Silen couldn't figure out the track, it stands to reason there was a problem.

    You pointing out I didn't make the Main?

    I didn't make them all.

    But I never quit.

    I was 7th or 8th in the Geezer Main after the first heat, and I came back to win it.

    You chortling about my not making the Main?

    What was your best finish ever at a Nat's.

    5th in Pro 27 at my race?

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    If the 2003 drivers track was the key to your nice turnout, why would of you replaced it?

    The 1990 Nat's track was a driver's track.

    The 2003 one was a mystery track.96th
    Last edited by swiss; 08-23-2015 at 08:07 PM.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
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  3. #63
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    Jun 2002
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    Why do so many of Swiss' posts resemble pissing contests?
    Last edited by Zippity; 08-23-2015 at 08:55 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Stratford CT
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    ONLINE VOTING (also see Article II: D, pg. 5)
    1. Annual Bylaws Online Vote
    a) The Online Ballot will be posted on September 15. The
    voting will commence immediately and will close on September
    29.
    b) The General Membership will vote in this election.
    c) This election will be for changes to the Bylaws and National Director.

    ARTICLE VIII SANCTIONED RACING EVENTS
    A. National Championship
    1. A National Championship shall be conducted annually for each
    division of USRA (i.e., major racing category).
    2. All entry forms and/or tech sheets are and will remain the property of
    the USRA. All forms must and will be turned over to USRA officials
    only.
    3. Once the hosting track has been established, the actual Nats race
    schedule will be determined in collaboration with the hosting track
    and the USRA Divisional Director. Once a mutual agreement is
    decided upon by both parties, the final schedule will be sent to
    the national director for final approval.
    4. The annual Scale National Championship Race shall be held
    between April 1 and May 7.
    5. The annual Wing Car National Championship Race shall begin and
    finish in the month of August.

    I think you got that wrong Doug, all you need to do is insert the alternating year requirement in Article 8, which is a ByLaw and it must be voted on by the General Membership.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  5. #65
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    Great Valley,NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiss View Post
    Doug,
    You probably only needed about 30 day laborers to win The 2006 Nat's vote.

    You could of saved yourself $200. Lol

    The USRA hasn't changed you have to race to vote?

    If not, they should.

    There certainly has been other Nat's where people not racing voted.

    So why is Retro outdrawing wings, despite the cars being twice as slow?

    What do you think the attraction is?
    Even though I know they won`t admit it, the reason most guys race Retro instead of Wing Cars has little to do with cost.
    Retro is almost as expensive to race as Group 12.
    If you buy a chassis from a good builder the car costs about the same.

    The reason they race Retro is because they can`t keep up with a faster car.
    Many of the Retro guys just aren`t good enough drivers to race even low end Wing Cars.

    Not saying the guys who win aren`t good enough, but many of the B and C Main guys just can`t race a car that runs under 3 second laps.
    I`ve seen it over and over.
    Last edited by La Cucaracha; 08-23-2015 at 08:15 PM.

  6. #66
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    Jun 2002
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    Amateur Group 12 - 13 entries
    Expert Group 12 - 9 entries
    Amateur C12- 10 entries
    Expert C12 - 12 entries
    Amateur 15 - 8 entries
    Expert 15 - 8 entries
    Geezer G7 - 12 entries
    27 Light - 44 entries
    Amateur 27 - 6 entries
    Expert 27 - 7 entries
    OMO - 30 entries
    Semi Pro - 12 entries
    Pro - 17 entries

    No question wing racing is in fine shape just the way it is, ROFLMAO !!!
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  7. #67
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    Jul 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesketh View Post
    First off I'm not anti-speedbowl or anti -Gerding tracks, in fact I do most of my racing at Port Jeff, most likely the fastest track in the world outside of Pilsen. However, we all are aware of the relentless evolution of wing car racing down a ever narrower line of development. Much of this development has come through the development of faster tracks by Gary , these have allowed for shorter cars less downforce, harder tires, more horespower, etc, etc. etc. At the same time we continue to drive more and more people of out wing car racing because of the intensity and cost.

    I think we need something to break this evolutionary path, people always wonder why we only have Nats at these types of tracks. It's because the rules allow only Nats attendees to vote on a Nats and the only Nats attendees are those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. One very easy way to break this pattern is to vote on a ByLaw change ( which require a vote of all members not just those at the Nats) which would require alternating tracks for a Nats between Gerding Kings and all other types of tracks (including non-Gerding Kings). This would allow other tracks to compete for a Nats, in alternating years, which normally wouldn't have a chance like Frank Sarkela, Speedzone's Engleman, Lucky Bob's Hillclimb, whatever. Also it would change the design emphasis away from speedbowl cars to driver cars. Fast guys will still be fast but more racers will believe they have a chance to compete. After all the biggest turnout we had in the modern era was at the Track in 2003 on their quirky driver track. I'm throwing this out to get some reaction, discussion and ideas.
    Paul,

    I agree 100%..

    I miss the old "American Blue King" tracks, that were actually driving King's not punch bowls. I've never driven on one of the punch bowls, but I have raced the "American Blue King" track and it was far from a Punch Bowl.

    I understand, respect and appreciate the want and need to go faster and faster and faster, but where did the "know how to drive" part leave the hobby?

    Racing a Punch Bowl becomes who has the money, knowledge and or knows the right people to be FAST and is much less about how well you can handle the car..

    I know some guys will argue "If you want to "Drive" race a different class, wings are for SPEED", But I think it's more than that...

    I would love to see Nats held on tracks OTHER than Punch Bowls. A Kingleman, an American Blue King, a Hill Climb, etc..

    I also think track voltage should be limited to 13.8v for consistency across all tracks.

    I think as Paul said in the Bold sentence above, I believe that is one of the majior things that keeps this hobby from growing like it could and with some manufactures charging outrageous prices for some things, (IE Armature, Braid, some tools) are driving stakes into the heart of this hobby.

    I have enjoyed this hobby, now the 3rd time around... When I was a Teenager in the 90's, 2003-2004, and now 2014-Current... I hope my Children will also enjoy this hobby. But we need ALOT more diversity in this hobby in Manufactures, Races, Raceways, etc...

    Anyway, No one cares what *I* think. But there you have it...

    -TheChad

  8. #68
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    Jun 2015
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    49
    The 2003 nats track was a piece of $h1T, fire wood

  9. #69
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    Dec 2005
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    Virginia Beach, VA
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    This thread is awesome with my morning coffee ...................
    Kevan Taylor
    Just another Camen racer in the Mid-Atlantic .......... Home to some of the world's greatest keyboard racers.

  10. #70
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH
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    I'm sort of a newcomer to wing racing, but I do have a few thoughts on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheChad View Post
    Paul,

    I agree 100%..

    I miss the old "American Blue King" tracks, that were actually driving King's not punch bowls. I've never driven on one of the punch bowls, but I have raced the "American Blue King" track and it was far from a Punch Bowl.

    Have raced on an Original Blue King. It's different than a "punchbowl" and it's OK

    I understand, respect and appreciate the want and need to go faster and faster and faster, but where did the "know how to drive" part leave the hobby?

    It didn't leave the hobby. This is a myth IMHO

    Racing a Punch Bowl becomes who has the money, knowledge and or knows the right people to be FAST and is much less about how well you can handle the car..

    Those who have raced wing cars on these tracks know that is not true. Hot lapping is one thing, racing is another

    I know some guys will argue "If you want to "Drive" race a different class, wings are for SPEED", But I think it's more than that...

    Funny that most wing drivers make pretty good scale racers too

    I would love to see Nats held on tracks OTHER than Punch Bowls. A Kingleman, an American Blue King, a Hill Climb, etc..

    OK, that's great, and it might be fun, but, the thing is, to me it doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint. Well for me at least, and those who can relate. I have limited vacation and funds I can use for racing and I try to make the best use of my time and funds. i.e. I was only at Dallas for 3 days and only used 1 day of vacation. No matter how much fun it would be, it would cost me a lot more to to go one of the above tracks and be competitive. If I don't think I would be competitive, well then I'm not going to go.

    I also think track voltage should be limited to 13.8v for consistency across all tracks.

    Ha, sometimes it is under load or even less. It's not just about voltage, it's about power. Matching power to the track is important.

    I think as Paul said in the Bold sentence above, I believe that is one of the majior things that keeps this hobby from growing like it could and with some manufactures charging outrageous prices for some things, (IE Armature, Braid, some tools) are driving stakes into the heart of this hobby.

    Low volume, specialty items (and that is what racing parts are) are going to cost more. The cost of Braid just went up because the supply got more expensive. You can't ask the manufacturers to sell at a loss as they will go out of business.

    I have enjoyed this hobby, now the 3rd time around... When I was a Teenager in the 90's, 2003-2004, and now 2014-Current... I hope my Children will also enjoy this hobby. But we need ALOT more diversity in this hobby in Manufactures, Races, Raceways, etc...

    Anyway, No one cares what *I* think. But there you have it...

    -TheChad
    It's a hobby, so enjoy it at the level you want to enjoy it. Support your local track, share your enthusiasm with others and maybe you'll bring some new people into the hobby. Mostly, just have fun.

  11. #71
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    Dec 2009
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    I think I'm going to need a lot more popcorn

  12. #72
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    Jun 2002
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    Home of the 2007 USRA Nats and a pretty fast King Track
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    Joe, I completely understand why yo feel the way you do. I am also quite amazed at your keen ability to evaluate the quality of a track at such a young age, what were you, like 12 when you raced on it?

    Mike, your story of volunteering reads well many years later, but one only needs to go back and look at the results to see that you were eliminated in the Semi thus were required to turn marshal the main, which you did admirably other than your head explosion that caused me to hold up the Pro Main at the Nats while I calmed you down.

    Hesketh, all is good. In 12 years we've lost over 100 entries at our premier event even though we've added 2 of the most popular classes ever. Pros sit in the gallery and watch while a very few actually connect a controller, some classes cannot fill a main, a well known raceway owner was heard to say "it's like a swap meet out there" referring to racers trading among each other rather than at the sales counter, all is good though and there needs to be no changes, no discussion.

    Still the USRA is the best organization out here, and I truly believe that, I can only hope that some sort of Coup against what we have doesn't ruin the whole thing and fragment it making wing car racing inconsequential.
    There are "Racers" and there are "Talkers".....which one are you?

  13. #73
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    Stratford CT
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    With the turnouts the way they are at the US Nat's we might be very well approaching conformity with the rest of the World where the US Nats is just another national race like the Brazilian Nats, or European Nat's, whatever, and the real big race on the calendar is the World's. Maybe that's not a bad thing just a change of emphasis.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  14. #74
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    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central, Illinois
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    325
    "I would love to see Nats held on tracks OTHER than Punch Bowls. A Kingleman, an American Blue King, a Hill Climb, etc.."

    Quote Originally Posted by skigolfmike
    OK, that's great, and that might be fun, but, the thing is, to me it doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint. Well for me at least, and those who can relate. I have limited vacation and funds I can use for racing and I try to make the best use of my time and funds. i.e. I was only at Dallas for 3 days and only used 1 day of vacation. No matter how much fun it would be, it would cost me a lot more to to go one of the above tracks and be competitive. If I don't think I would be competitive, well then I'm not going to go.

    So... What I understand your statement to be is that you are unable or unwilling to set a car up for whatever track you are at to race? You only want to race at the same track(s) (Gerding Kings) because you virtually only have to put the car on the track and pull the trigger?

    I raced for 10+ years in Off Road R/C cars, where EVERY single track was completely different than another. You had to set up the car, gearing, suspension, etc. for every single track you raced on. Today they spray sugar water on the dirt at the nationals for better traction, back when I raced, the track was what ever it was and YOU (the racer) had to make it work. THAT is what shows a true racer from someone who can buy a car from someone like Beuf, set it on the track and race in a national event.

    Not just slot cars, but every hobby these days seems like its becoming more and more of a "Do it for me" and less of a skill..

    Don't get me wrong I had stage 4 Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in 2011 and forgot almost everything technical about my hobbies (Slot Cars, R/C, Reloading, etc), there are a lot of people here and locally that have helped me out endless amounts. Mr. Paul is one of those people who has helped me to no end.

    However I am not competing on a National level (yet, if ever). I think those that show up to a nats and have their car(s) handed to them aren't really racers. I understand motors, not everyone has the tools/resources to build motors, etc...

    Anyway, Not trying to make waves here, but I think the Only racing on Gerding King's in the Nats is ridiculous.

    Like you said, "Have Fun" and you also said racing on other tracks "Might be fun"... soooooo....

    I understand the time and money restraints. That is a huge reason I may never get to the nats, though I am hoping to travel a little bit, traveling all over the US is never going to happen. But look at all the other people whom are probably in the same situation, that maybe if the nats were held on a track closer to them or maybe even their home track, they would attend.

    Anyway, stuff like this is the reason I got out of R/C almost pro level racing... It got to be where it wasn't fun any more because the few at the top controlled everything and made it miserable for everyone that wasn't "pro".

    This hobby has ALOT of great people, ALOT of people willing to help and to be honest, that is probably why this hobby still exists, because those that are involved want to grow the hobby and enjoy helping bring people up if so nothing else, they have someone to race with!

    I still believe having nats on tracks other than Gerding Kings from time to time would offer a lot more competition, keep things a lot more interesting and would grow the hobby. Agree or not, that's my $0.02, no refunds.

    -TheChad

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by skigolfmike View Post
    Low volume, specialty items (and that is what racing parts are) are going to cost more. The cost of Braid just went up because the supply got more expensive. You can't ask the manufacturers to sell at a loss as they will go out of business.

    Most of this stuff, while some being very specialized are not expensive to manufacture.. If costs the Manufacture $5 (Made up number) to make a Armature EndMill, the Manufacture sell's it to the distributor for $10, the distributor sells it to the track for $20, the track sells it to the consumer for $40. You can buy 1/4" End mills for about $3 from China, they sell for about ~$60 in the slot car industry.

    I Understand things like the price of copper significantly affect the price of certain things like Braid, Armatures, lead wire.. But the price increases have become astronomical on Armatures and Braid.. There are many other items that are not specifically manufactured for the Slot Car industry that get overpriced to the Slot car consumers.. But I don't want to pick every single thing apart. Just trying to make a point. It's hard to grow a hobby/industry if you price the hobby/industry right out of business by making it unaffordable, especially to the guys trying to just get started. (Which is the common items like Braid, TIRES, armatures, etc. Not even talking about the more specialty items)

    -TheChad

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