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Thread: Wing Nats at something other then a Gerding speedbowl.

  1. #76
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    Jun 2015
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    49
    Roman everything you touch turns to $h1T, fire wood

    why is it always the people that dont show up to the nats complaining? Crying like 3 year olds. Support the nats or keep your mouth shut is my motto

  2. #77
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    Jun 2002
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    Stratford CT
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    That's a strategy that seems to be working, lol.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  3. #78
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    Jul 2013
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    Central, Illinois
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChubbyG7 View Post
    Roman everything you touch turns to $h1T, fire wood

    why is it always the people that dont show up to the nats complaining? Crying like 3 year olds. Support the nats or keep your mouth shut is my motto

    Really not trying to get in the middle of this here, but what if you can't afford to go to the nats? What if your job doesn't allow you to go to the nats? What if the status quo is the REASON why you don't go to the nats?

    I don't see any reason why there can't be collective input from EVERYONE on ways to improve the hobby, including the nats with out the requirement that you HAVE to go to the nats or your thoughts/opinions/input doesn't matter?

    Maybe that's why this hobby is in the position its in over the last 40? years.. The opinions/thoughts/input from out side the "status quo", the future of the hobby, the new comers, is what will make the hobby expand/grow...

    I tell my boss all the time, if you want to find out what needs to change, ask the new hires. They have fresh insight, they havn't had time to be corrupt by the status quo and often times their input/ideas are 10x better than the ones that come from the ones that have been there for many years. Because the input/ideas that come from the ones that have been there the longest are typicaly more on the complaining side and they don't like change, they just want everything to stay the same.

    The definition of Insanity is "Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results"....

    Carry On..

    -TheChad

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesketh View Post
    Amateur Group 12 - 13 entries
    Expert Group 12 - 9 entries
    Amateur C12- 10 entries
    Expert C12 - 12 entries
    Amateur 15 - 8 entries
    Expert 15 - 8 entries
    Geezer G7 - 12 entries
    27 Light - 44 entries
    Amateur 27 - 6 entries
    Expert 27 - 7 entries
    OMO - 30 entries
    Semi Pro - 12 entries
    Pro - 17 entries

    No question wing racing is in fine shape just the way it is, ROFLMAO !!!
    And where were you? Looks like your opinion doesn't count
    Skidmarks
    230 S. Averill
    Flint, Mi 48506

  5. #80
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    Jun 2002
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    Stratford CT
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    1,881
    I stopped going a couple of years ago, why fly to texas to race against the same 8 guys half of which I race against at Port Jeff anyway. I can stay at home and get an a$$ whoopin' no need to spend a 1000 dollars traveling to accomplish the same thing. Opinion's always count it's only a matter of who with, lol.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  6. #81
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    Dec 2003
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    Michigan
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    What I like most about going to the Nite is most of the racers are my friends and the cry babies have gone off to race other things.
    Skidmarks
    230 S. Averill
    Flint, Mi 48506

  7. #82
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    Jun 2002
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    Home of the 2007 USRA Nats and a pretty fast King Track
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    ChubbyG7 brings up a good point, no not about me turning everything to ...well you know, but about supporting the Nats.

    So where does "Nats" support come from? it comes from local raceways that support, maintain, and encourage wing racing on a local level. Without the raceways locally supporting wing racing, Nats attendance would be worse than it in now. So that leads to discussions, the discussions about new classes, different ways of preparing the racing surface, etc, etc, didn't typically start at the Nats, they started at local raceways and discussions such as this. Then those classes and or ways of track prep being tested locally and proven to work before being proposed on a National level. Then of course by those racers that are able to travel to the various Nats cities around the country

    So who supports the Nats? any racer who has an idea that may make it better, any raceway that supports those ideas and attempts to implement them and prove the value, any national caliber racers that can clearly see 7 people in a Main at the Nats isn't a good thing. This website by giving everyone a forum where these discussions can be held in a reasonably adult manner. All these things support the Nats and wing racing in general and will help prolong the life of wing racing as well know it.
    There are "Racers" and there are "Talkers".....which one are you?

  8. #83
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    I agree Roman, the real crybabies are the ones who stick their fingers in their ears, and try to drown out the discussion.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  9. #84
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    Jun 2002
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    Land of Excitement "Bensenville"
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    It does not matter what you race retro/flexi/scale/wings when you get serious you are going to push it to go faster. Wings are not out of hand but the rules do need to be looked at. I mean in the past I dont know the numbers from this year, but 27L turned more laps then 27pro. Why do we have 27pro it is because the racers that race it don't what to obsolete there stuff. I just don't see a point when the two motor class turns more laps. 2 years ago I proposed C12 light take all 27 rules and chassis and run a single mag c12. But i was told no way we dont want to kill C12. 2 or 1 motor classes are the way of the future. I love building motors but I am just saying what I see. I have no problem building a 40Mag + open motor again just saying what I see. But I sill think PRO G7 needs to be left alone it is the unlimited class. I hope to try and make it out to SkidMarks this year I want to do some wing racing. Everyone needs to remember even on a Punch bowl if it is punched and not loose your slow. Loose is still fast.
    Michael Mazur
    Ruzam Racing
    Team ProSlot

  10. #85
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    Dec 2009
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    Dayton, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChad View Post
    "I would love to see Nats held on tracks OTHER than Punch Bowls. A Kingleman, an American Blue King, a Hill Climb, etc.."




    So... What I understand your statement to be is that you are unable or unwilling to set a car up for whatever track you are at to race? You only want to race at the same track(s) (Gerding Kings) because you virtually only have to put the car on the track and pull the trigger?

    Not exactly the case. It's way more complicated than that. It's not just setting up what I have, in many cases it would include running different bodies, chassis, tires and motors. For example, there is quite a variation in how cars react to different Gerding Kings based on the peculiarities of each individual track. However, it doesn't mean replacing an entire program at considerable cost to handle one of the aforementioned tracks. Heck, I added a C12 program for this years Nats. 3 chassis, 6 motors, 5 bodies and associated axles, gears and tires later I had a competitive program. You do the math and tell me what it costs. Plus there are travel costs, vacation time burned that I don't get to use with my family, etc. At some point it it crosses my threshold of having fun and I'm going to shine it.

    I raced for 10+ years in Off Road R/C cars, where EVERY single track was completely different than another. You had to set up the car, gearing, suspension, etc. for every single track you raced on. Today they spray sugar water on the dirt at the nationals for better traction, back when I raced, the track was what ever it was and YOU (the racer) had to make it work. THAT is what shows a true racer from someone who can buy a car from someone like Beuf, set it on the track and race in a national event.

    Starting from the early 70s, I have raced karts, cars, motorcycles, slot cars, RC cars (10th off and on road, 12th carpet, 8th on road 2wd & 4wd), competed in RC precision aerobatics, and somewhere in there I got a pilots license, did a lot of skiing, did some competitive cycling, and played a lot of competitive golf. I am well aware of what it takes to setup a car for different tracks and how to make things work thank you.

    Not just slot cars, but every hobby these days seems like its becoming more and more of a "Do it for me" and less of a skill..

    I can't speak for anyone else here, but I build most of my own ceramic motors and do basic maintenance on the cobalt motors. I build my chassis from kits and I build my own bodies and paint most of them too. FWIW, I did the same with the karts, RC stuff too; although at times I have threatened to fire my mechanic

    Don't get me wrong I had stage 4 Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in 2011 and forgot almost everything technical about my hobbies (Slot Cars, R/C, Reloading, etc), there are a lot of people here and locally that have helped me out endless amounts. Mr. Paul is one of those people who has helped me to no end.

    I am glad you recovered and are enjoying life and this hobby!

    However I am not competing on a National level (yet, if ever). I think those that show up to a nats and have their car(s) handed to them aren't really racers. I understand motors, not everyone has the tools/resources to build motors, etc...

    Anyway, Not trying to make waves here, but I think the Only racing on Gerding King's in the Nats is ridiculous.

    Like you said, "Have Fun" and you also said racing on other tracks "Might be fun"... soooooo....

    I understand the time and money restraints. That is a huge reason I may never get to the nats, though I am hoping to travel a little bit, traveling all over the US is never going to happen. But look at all the other people whom are probably in the same situation, that maybe if the nats were held on a track closer to them or maybe even their home track, they would attend.

    Anyway, stuff like this is the reason I got out of R/C almost pro level racing... It got to be where it wasn't fun any more because the few at the top controlled everything and made it miserable for everyone that wasn't "pro".

    This hobby has ALOT of great people, ALOT of people willing to help and to be honest, that is probably why this hobby still exists, because those that are involved want to grow the hobby and enjoy helping bring people up if so nothing else, they have someone to race with!

    I still believe having nats on tracks other than Gerding Kings from time to time would offer a lot more competition, keep things a lot more interesting and would grow the hobby. Agree or not, that's my $0.02, no refunds.

    -TheChad
    Like I said, it's complicated and each person has to make his own decision what to do. Going to a Nats with a track that's not a Gerding means going early for practice, building equipment as needed and lots of testing. If you have the time, fine. If not, well, make your own decision. At this years Nats I could have raced 6 classes; however, in doing so, I would have burned 3 additional days of vacation that are committed to family. Say the Nats were at a non punch bowl track where serious testing was needed, I could not have done it this year and, for me, it would have been a purely economic decision. YMMV

  11. #86
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    Jun 2002
    Location
    Watkins Glen, New York
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    662
    "Actually,nascar and F1 are two forms of 1/1 racing where rules have been implemented to slow down the cars and lower the cost of racing. But then those are fairly obscure forms of racing that aren't very popular, lol. "

    I can't speak for NASCAR since I don't watch it, but plenty of rules have been implemented to slow down the F1 cars. One winter in the wind tunnel and the engineers have the cars going faster with less rubber on the road, less down force, and less engine displacement.

    Some of these rules have in fact made it more possible for teams once considered "lesser" to compete, and that has led to a resurgence in interest and viewership.

    I don't think it will ever happen, but run the Nats on a 40 year old Engleman and you'll see who's who and why. Drivers will emerge and they'll have more skill and sportsmanship than they did when they walked in.
    "Bring your ballistic $hit and your asbestos shorts, nobody gets out alive." Paul Kovich

  12. #87
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    Dec 2009
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    Dayton, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChad View Post
    Most of this stuff, while some being very specialized are not expensive to manufacture.. If costs the Manufacture $5 (Made up number) to make a Armature EndMill, the Manufacture sell's it to the distributor for $10, the distributor sells it to the track for $20, the track sells it to the consumer for $40. You can buy 1/4" End mills for about $3 from China, they sell for about ~$60 in the slot car industry.

    I Understand things like the price of copper significantly affect the price of certain things like Braid, Armatures, lead wire.. But the price increases have become astronomical on Armatures and Braid.. There are many other items that are not specifically manufactured for the Slot Car industry that get overpriced to the Slot car consumers.. But I don't want to pick every single thing apart. Just trying to make a point. It's hard to grow a hobby/industry if you price the hobby/industry right out of business by making it unaffordable, especially to the guys trying to just get started. (Which is the common items like Braid, TIRES, armatures, etc. Not even talking about the more specialty items)

    -TheChad
    I wonder how that cheap Chinese POS Open arms are going to work in those cheap Chinese POS setups? I have no problems with the tooth brush motors and I've run them in flexis and retros.

    I've been involved in all kinds of racing for over 40 years and it's always been more expensive because it's a low volume, high quality, custom parts business. That always equals expensive.

  13. #88
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH
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    249
    Quote Originally Posted by weedracer View Post
    "Actually,nascar and F1 are two forms of 1/1 racing where rules have been implemented to slow down the cars and lower the cost of racing. But then those are fairly obscure forms of racing that aren't very popular, lol. "

    I can't speak for NASCAR since I don't watch it, but plenty of rules have been implemented to slow down the F1 cars. One winter in the wind tunnel and the engineers have the cars going faster with less rubber on the road, less down force, and less engine displacement.

    Some of these rules have in fact made it more possible for teams once considered "lesser" to compete, and that has led to a resurgence in interest and viewership.

    I don't think it will ever happen, but run the Nats on a 40 year old Engleman and you'll see who's who and why. Drivers will emerge and they'll have more skill and sportsmanship than they did when they walked in.
    NASCAR and slot racing is a good comparison. How many cookie cutter 1.5 mile tracks are there in NASCAR? Guess what, they are all different just like every super speedway king I've raced on. NASCAR used to race on city streets, a beach, dirt tracks and asphalt. Now NASCAR only races on asphalt tracks that are a lot smoother than any highway. Used to be show up and run what ya brung. Now, cars are built weeks ahead of time for specific tracks with only minor changes you can't even see.

    It's kind of the same in wing racing. As the "cookie cutter" super speedway kings have come into prominence and chassis, tires, motors and bodies have been developed for these tracks and, of course, our race programs have followed to stay competitive. Kind of just like NASCAR and all it's 1.5 mile cookie cutter tracks.

    All racing is an adrenaline packed, testosterone filled physics experiment with unchecked egos. Which is why it's so much fun.

  14. #89
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    Sep 2003
    Location
    Norcross, GA
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    891
    Quote Originally Posted by skigolfmike View Post
    All racing is an adrenaline packed, testosterone filled physics experiment with unchecked egos. Which is why it's so much fun.
    For the few who still desire to play.

  15. #90
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH
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    249
    That's sort of tongue in cheek. This is just a hobby for all but a few of us.

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