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Thread: USRA Boxstock Chassis

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Central, Illinois
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    325
    Quote Originally Posted by shontelh View Post
    Obviously, obsoleting everyone's equipment is a very poor solution. The entire BOD understands and is discussing the situation.
    Isn't that why the USRA bent over for Cahoza to keep it legal?

    That said, as fast as everything changes and the reality of Wing Racing, everyone that races competitively replaces their chassis constantly and some every (major) race. So really, it's not as big of a deal as its being made to be. These rules are only going to apply in black and white fashion once a year at the USRA NATS.

    NASCAR makes rules like this all the time and for much the same reason, because they build new cars practically every race, it's a minor inconvience at worst.

    Technology has significantly changed since the Box Stock weight limit was made. Cars, motors, bodies are a lot lighter these days, I think having a weight requirement keeps the class more even, but I think the minimum weight is way too heavy and should be lowered to something much more realistic to modern chassis/setups.

    F-Class->OMB->Hillbilly Box->I-15->C12->27L->27 Glue->OMO/2MO->Open Done.

    If you race F-Class you cannot race any other class. This class needs to be a beginner class only. Every time experienced racers are aloud to race beginner/novice classes, it pushes the beginners/novices out and kills future racers and progression.

    Even OMB is a huge jump from F-Class. There needs to be a sealed Boxstock motor class in between F-Class and OMB, or OMB needs to be a sealed/hand out motor.

    Technically, one could use the same chassis for F-Class threw hillbilly box. Though as mentioned earlier, most use a new chassis every race.

    I'm sure not everyone will agree, but these are my thoughts from an outside prospective.

    -TheChad

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Chesapeake, Va.
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    803
    Why not a F Expert (not PRO just racers with some experience) class and then Am GP12 (not PRO just racers with the same level of experience as in F Expert)? If you race F class you can only race in F Expert and AM12. This would give a beginner more than one race at a Nat's. However, if you only run in the F Expert class then you can't run in AM12 but you can run in OMB and Hillbilly Box. The AM12 would keep the weight restriction. If you don't run either F class then you could run AM12, OMB, and Hillbilly Box. One more thing, anyone running either F class or AM12 could not run "ANY" cobalt class. This should keep the most experienced racers out of the lower end racing. There would be no effect on Int. 15 and those running OMB and Hillbilly Box could still run in the cobalt classes.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  3. #18
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    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central, Illinois
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    Why should someone racing in AM12 be aloud to race Hillbilly Box? If your "Amateur/Novice", you have no business in a pro/advanced class.. More so, if your racing a Pro/Advanced class, you have NO business in any armature class.. It's not only progression in speed but driving ability.

    The only problem with having an armature/pro, or amature/expert class is that it significantly increases how long the NATS will be.. Qualifying and running to a main essentially nagnates the need for Pro/Amature separation..

    But I agree, there needs to be more progression on the lower levels. Your purposed AM12 class needs to be Sealed/handout motors. There needs to be progression that someone can advance their driving skills with out having to learn to build motor or having to buy $$ motors from motor builders and to keep it more even/fair so that they can/will advance.

    Once you reach a level of Hillbilly box, moving beyond that is a matter of money, mostly. I15 and C12 cost about the same as Hillbilly box, slightly more for Aluminum chassis. The Hillbilly Box motors cost about the same. 27L the motor/Armature cost jumps significantly and beyond... But most anyone that is competitive in Hillbilly Box, could be competitive in I15, C12 or 27L. While all 3 of those classes handle differently, all the same practices/knowledge applies to all those classes and if you can drive competitively in any of those classes, you should be competitive in the others. At that point is just speed and not a huge difference these days.

    -TheChad
    Last edited by TheChad; 02-15-2016 at 09:59 AM.

  4. #19
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    Jun 2002
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    The problem with adding new classes, even if they make sense, is that old classes, even if they have seriously declining interest, don't get removed or collapsed into other classes. The rules for class changes make it highly unlikely that a class is removed, since the only ones who get to vote on that at a Nat's are those people interested in racing it, even if there are only 3 of them.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
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    803
    Oh how far we have come. I have a copy of the 1987 USRA Racing Rules and they only list 4 classes; Unlimited, GP27, GP15 International, and USRA Box Stock 15. What a difference.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
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    F needs to stay a beginners class. And "expert" F what ever that may be, is ridiculous sounding. It sounds like an excuse to not move up and race a real motor.
    Am12 needs to be just like it is now. 72 grams and spec tires but limited to two motors. Pro 12 needs to be the Hillbilly/ESROC variant with Aluminum endbells. This kills two birds here. The Pro motors will not find there way into AM12. Nor will the car cross over.

    You race group f, and you can race OneMotor box and AM12. Done. Three classes is plenty to have a great time at the NATs. No other restriction on drivers.

    Other than that, the rest is good I think.

    Archie
    Last edited by tommy_gunn; 02-16-2016 at 09:51 AM.
    "Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"

    Archie King
    2019 TSRA Series Group 7 Champion
    2018 TSRA Series Group 7 Champion
    2018 HillBilly Box World Record Holder 1.907
    2016 HillBilly BoxStock Champion
    2014 TSRA Series Group 7 Champion

    Team KOFORD
    http://www.koford.com/slot/

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Chicago Area
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    247
    The only thing I would change with Archie's idea would be to allow BB's in the endbell of ALL C-Can Motors and shunting. Does not add much to the cost of a G12 Motor. D2 allows this and I see no reason not to in D1.


    Bernie Schatz

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    119
    Probably time to simply change the direction of Box. No weight limit, steel chassis, Hillbilly Box replaces ProBox and OMG12 replaces Amateur Box. After all adding the weight doesn't do much except complicate chassis building and puts unnecessary strain on motors.
    I think Hesketh's thought's are spot on. No sense in pushing around 72g battering rams in this day and age. With a no minimum weight policy, the racer can always add back weight at a specific local track if it needs it. Hillbilly 12 motors won't be able to migrate into OMG12.

  9. #24
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    Jul 2013
    Location
    Central, Illinois
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    325
    Why have rules/restrictions at all!? This is the problem..

    One person wants bearing in the can, the next wants bearings in the Endbell, the next wants bearing in the axel, the next wants no motor restrictions, It never ends!

    That is basically what hillbilly box is becoming by, no rules Box Stock. The entry level classes, basically anything less than I15 need to be spec classes to control cost, experience, fairness, etc. they need to be restricted to allow people that haven't been racing for years, or who can't afford to have Beuf build everything and hand them a RTR car, so that they can be competitive and have stepping stones to become a seasoned racer... Forcing would be newbie out or scaring them off will be the end of this hobby... The fact is if you want unlimited Boxstock, maybe it's time you move up to I15 or C12 or 27L..

    I know, I know, people will argue Boxstock and/or hillbilly box isn't a beginner class... Which only proves my point.. Having one class, F class for beginners and after that you make a huge jump into a class that has very seasoned racers that know all the tricks in the book, etc. Is not how you get new racers to stay in the hobby. There needs to be 2-3 levels a beginner can progress threw before going into a builders class.
    Last edited by TheChad; 02-16-2016 at 09:56 PM.

  10. #25
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    Jun 2002
    Location
    Stratford CT
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    1,881
    Stop making sense!!! lol.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  11. #26
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    Dec 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesketh View Post
    The problem with adding new classes, even if they make sense, is that old classes, even if they have seriously declining interest, don't get removed or collapsed into other classes. The rules for class changes make it highly unlikely that a class is removed, since the only ones who get to vote on that at a Nat's are those people interested in racing it, even if there are only 3 of them.
    too much peer pressure, not truly having interests of the DIV-1 classes, and attitude....i don't want to shank my 3-7 buddies that are the last dinosaurs in class getting voted to be eliminated occurs in the voting process. you also end up with too many racers that own companies or racers heavily sponsored voting the rules for the hobby.

    imo there are too many USRA classes alone based on the current 50 turn 29 gauge motors as it is now, 7 if you count AM & Pro split. there needs to be some severe cutting and consolidation

    OMO-12
    G-12
    int-15
    C-12

    there are several variants being run: HB-12 formerly tried as W-12 virtually a int-12, hawk-12 wing classes, G-12 one bearing endbellG-12 one bearing can side, G-12 two bearing motor

    too many
    Last edited by DasShanker; 02-18-2016 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    190
    I guess this started as being weight limits for Box 12, it seems that some time in the past racers thought that the weight limit in box 12 needed to go. We have now moved box 12 to spray, which mean carrying extra weight now makes less sense. We have introduced a new class called Group F, which is ALMOST box 12 but with a slightly modified chassis and different motor and this entry class was to contain costs. The last thing the sport needs is for a box 12 chassis to be different to a Grp F chassis. In non USRA world we now have a new class called Hillbilly 12 - which is essentially back to the Grp F chassis.

    To me, the sensible thing would be to allow a box 12 chassis to have the weights (pans) removed so they are the same as Grp F and Hillbilly chassis. Once this is done I would expect very quickly manufactures will stop putting these pans on - we dont need them in spray glue - and if we do need a little more weight for some slower tracks we will go back to brass rod when required for tuning.

    With this racers can now move between class's with the same roller. I also think that with the price of Chinese bearings bronze bushes for grp f, box 12 should be a thing of the past.

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