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Thread: legality in the USRA Scale Division

  1. #1
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    legality in the USRA Scale Division

    While it has been posted elsewhere and the questioning about the Mossetti Patriot and it's legality in the USRA Scale Division, here is the explanation.

    The Mossetti chassis are "connected" using a brass or stainless tube which are retained into the chassis with using simple body pins.

    The chassis was submitted using this system of connecting the center sections and pans and for 2017 this was the only way to use a Mossetti chassis in USRA.

    The connector tube is not a "bite bar" nor does it fall under the USRA Stamped Steel Specifications as a bite bar. Mossetti has marketed and labeled the tubes as "Connector Tubes" since the release of their chassis.

    This system of using a connector tube was used on the Mossetti Titan chassis many years ago and was approved by the USRA at the time it was submitted many years ago. No rules have been voted in place at any time in regards to "connector tubes".

    The Mossetti MR-1051 Retaining Clip is now USRA legal to use as a "replacement" for the body pins that are used in the connector tubes. This was proposed and voted on at the 2017 USRA Scale Nats so it's legal to use as a replacement for the body pins that are used to retain the chassis connector tube in the chassis. The retaining clip is not a bite bar nor could it be used as a bite bar.

    As far as the question/comment made elsewhere:

    "What are the rules concerning retainers?"

    "There isn't any, because until the Mossetti, bite bars didn't need retainers."

    There are no rules concerning retainers at this time. Flexi type chassis over the years have been "connected" by various ways. Champion chassis are connected by a "cotter key", past JK chassis were connected with a screw and nut and some Parma chassis were connected using the front axle.

    On chassis that were connected with a round connecting bar or front axle there were rules at the time that specified that the "springs" or "collars" that held and kept the connecting bars/front axles could be soldered or glued.

    So yes, there has been many USRA approved chassis in the past that were held together or connected using "retainers" or a retainer type system and with specific rules in regards to the retainers used.

    Another comment made:

    "So we are looking at a situation where the multi bend retainer on the Mossetti is OK, but the multi bends, integrated on the JK bite bar, that act only as the retainer, somehow isn't?"

    The current USRA rules on the bite bar clearly states "no bends". As the comment states; multi bends integrated on the JK bite bar, is not USRA legal at this time. While the bite bar with bends may retain the bite bar in the chassis due to it's bends, it's still not legal per the current rules due to it's having bends.

    There was a proposal to allowed bent style bite bars, but it was not voted on, as the person writing and submitting the proposal was not present at the Scale Nats as the USRA By Laws require.

    Final comments made:

    " PS- the current 2017 USRA Rule Book states;
    MR-1052 as a replacement to the brass tube on the Approved Mossetti Chassis

    That sure sounds like the chassis is approved with the brass tube.

    If it wasn't, wouldn't the wording "required" before "replacement"?

    or some other rhethroic, making it clear, only the steel tube is approved/legal?"

    Yes the Mossetti chassis was submitted and approved using the brass tube. The stainless steel replacement tube was also approved at the same time.

    The rules are clear and correct. Racers may use either the brass or stainless replacement tube as long as both the required .062 diameter clearly defined and written in the rules. Both are legal and approved and it's racers choice as to using either the brass tube that comes in the chassis or replacing and using the optional purchase stainless tube.

    The only tubes that are required to use in the Mossetti, are the .062 dia brass or stainless steel tubes. No other dimensional or sized tubes can be used in the Mossetti chassis nor can the tubes be replaced by using a steel bite bar with retainers.

    Simply put, if any other chassis MFG wanted to use a tube and body pin system similar to the Mossetti chassis, versus a bite bar ( straight or bent ), it probably would be USRA approved as long as all other Stamped Steel Specs are followed by the MFG's.

    We hope this explanation clears up the questions posted elsewhere.

    Thanks,

    Roger Schmitt
    USRA National Director
    [IMG]IMG_6328[1] by regor1313, on Flickr[/IMG][IMG]IMG_6329[1] by regor1313, on Flickr[/IMG]

    IMG_6333[1] by regor1313, on Flickr[IMG]IMG_6330[1] by regor1313, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Roger Schmitt





    MidAmerica Slot Car Raceway LLC
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Schmitt View Post
    The connector tube is not a "bite bar" nor does it fall under the USRA Stamped Steel Specifications as a bite bar. Mossetti has marketed and labeled the tubes as "Connector Tubes" since the release of their chassis.
    JK has marketed and labeled those connecting pieces as "J-bars" since the release of their chassis and should NOT fall under any rule concerning "bite bars".

    How does the JK J-bar function any differently than the Mossetti connector tube?

    They both go through 4 bent uprights, and are only as long as required to connect and keep the chassis from falling apart.
    Last edited by swiss; 05-24-2017 at 12:47 PM.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
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  3. #3
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    Holy Crap!!!

    I agree with Swiss!!!

    It had to happen eventually.

  4. #4
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    "We hope this explanation clears up the questions posted elsewhere."
    No, not hardly.
    The questions have much to do with your right to do what you are doing, not your justification.


    Roger, just who is this "we" to whom you refer?
    Are you not speaking solely as the USRA president in this situation?
    "I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." -- Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Schmitt View Post

    The connector tube is not a "bite bar" nor does it fall under the USRA Stamped Steel Specifications as a bite bar.
    What page in the 2017 USRA Rule Book is the "USRA Stamped Steel Specifications" located?

    Is it the one marked "Stamped Steel Chassis Regulations"?

    If so, where is the passage where a bite bar is defined?
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  6. #6
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    I getting my Popcorn and Cokes ready,going to be a interesting night
    Tracy Brown, Owner of:
    Go Fast Products - Slot Cars-R-Us "The Track"
    Visit Go Fast HERE!
    Visit our NEW Slot Cars-R-Us "The Track"!

  7. #7
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    Notice how Swiss ALWAYS disagrees with Roger?

    Funny that a similar comment from me a couple of minutes ago was deleted on the other (Fox like) forum.
    Zippity

    "Rules are written by FEAR; and that Racers are motivated by the Fear that somebody may have something that gives others an Edge." - Rocky Russo



  8. #8
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    Funny how I disagree?

    Everyone is disagreeing.

    Where is there one post agreeing with his ruling, or the statement even more insulting to ones intelligence, that the Mossetti connector tube is different than the JK J-bar.

    You have 19 people on Slotblog giving Tim the "thumbs up" for dropping out of the USRA.

    You find it funny I agree with those 18 other Slotblog members?

    PS - there is 52 "likes" to Tim's statement on FB.

    You find it funny 51 people, and myself, share the same opinion?
    Last edited by swiss; 05-24-2017 at 04:31 PM.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  9. #9
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    BTW, I would like to point out that if there is a "bite bar" on a slot car chassis, it has much to do with where the pressure from the body and/or the weight of the pans are applied, not just as something used to hold the pieces of the chassis together.

    A glance at the JK Aeolos chassis immediately shows that it has an integral bite bar stamped into the pans and located between the 2 J-bar connectors that keep the pans on/aligned with the center section.
    What's the issue here?

    Why split hairs about piano wire pieces (that keep the chassis together) and their bends and dimensions when there has been no need to do so with the connectors in any of the chassis pictured above.
    Last edited by JimHT; 05-24-2017 at 05:06 PM.
    "I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." -- Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  10. #10
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    Once again it is the National Dictator putting his stamp on someone else's post.

    This is Roger and his HENCHMAN trying to outlaw JK products so their Mossetti parts will be the dominate chassis on the market. If the Mossetti chassis is so good then why didn't it win anything at the ISRA? Just like at the USRA Nationals at the National Dictators place - when the Mossetti chassis won their pictures were posted all over the place asking for everyone to stroke them, but when the outnumbers JK C21 won in LMP there are no pictures what so ever. Seem funny that this happened, but then I expected it from him.

    Just because this manufacture wouldn't give hundreds of dollars worth of FREE product to this shop, so they could sell at 100% profit. I am sure that no other slot care shop in the country, just because they are having the nationals asks for hundreds of dollars worth of free product so they can sell. Yea I can see discounted a little more, but not 100%. This is true ROBBERY on the part of the track owner.

    Everyone has got to wake up and see what is going on, but there are other people that support the National Dictator that are not out for the benefit of the hobby, but out for their own best interest. Which is the demise of USRA and then placing their own biased organization slanted at getting the racers to spend more money each and every month.
    Sincerely,

    Jeff Strause

  11. #11
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    Well if the BOD agrees with that they have the power to suspend his membership under Bylaws F2 "Conduct detrimental to the sport, subject to the
    discretion of the Board of Directors, will result in suspension. " If a National Director is no longer a member he certainly can't be National Director.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

  12. #12
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    ****Do it****

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Schmitt View Post
    The Mossetti chassis are "connected" using a brass or stainless tube which are retained into the chassis with using simple body pins.

    The connector tube is not a "bite bar" nor does it fall under the USRA Stamped Steel Specifications as a bite bar.
    From 2017 USRA Rule Book, pages 59 & 60;

    u) On the Mossetti 1001, 1003, 1006 chassis...must use either .062 dia. brass tube or the M-1052 .064 stainless tube only. Must use push/body pins to retain the bar in the chassis.

    How does one explain the above?

    The ND denies the Mossetti " connecting tube" is considered a bite bar, by the USRA "Specifications", but the 2017 USRA Rules refers to it as a bar.
    Last edited by swiss; 05-25-2017 at 10:49 AM.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  14. #14
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    Technically speaking the J-bars on the C43 are not bite bars but retainers. A bite bar, defined by the USRA rulebook, is a straight piece of wire with no flats and no bends. The J bars have bends, therefore, they are not a bite bar but retainers. You can tell they're retainers because they hook around one of the chassis stops to "retain" their position on the chassis.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  15. #15
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    Too bad everybody resigned they missed their chance to suspend the ND's membership and terminate his position.
    MON THE BIFF !!!

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