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Thread: which Controllers are banned?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    156

    which Controllers are banned?

    Heard that some organizations are banning controllers because they hold the voltage or modify the track voltage.

    What controllers are they?
    CK DaBoer

    Knocked you out of the slot!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    148
    I have not heard about any Controllers that has been banned.
    I have heard about racers wanting Controllers to be testet because they fear that some Controllers might raise the track-voltage, and some tests were made at the warm-up-race for the ISRA-worlds in Finland in October.

    No Controllers were found to increase the track-voltage, and why would you want to do that anyway at races where most cars can be over-powered. It might be another issue when racing hard-body or Retro-cars on a king-track.........

    Steen

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    156
    So far NO ONE has been willing or able to answer why any controller is 900 plus dollars. So anyone know exactly why this would b the case? The Difalco and Rudduck at in the 300 dollar range. So what makes these Czech and other controllers worth that much more?
    CK DaBoer

    Knocked you out of the slot!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    16
    I've always thought there could be some trickery in those big black boxes connected to those high end controllers

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Posts
    247
    Might be comparing apples & oranges. $300 Difalco is a great controller but does not have a choke box or anything other that Break & Sensitivity adjustment. These high end controllers have all sorts of features that a standard controller does not.. All of those things cost extra cash..


    Bernie Schatz

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,452
    I believe that there are aliens amongst us

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    528
    Build one & sell it for $300. Build a better mousetrap & I'll order one now and pay after I try it. I want it to have brake, anti-brake, sensitivity, voltage choke, wire resistance choke, changeable chips, be bullet proof for running 1/32 es, 1/32 F1, 1/24 es on tight twisty tracks. It also has to be as fast or faster than anything on the market. It can either be a FET or a transistor design. I prefer Parma handles & triggers. When will they be available?
    Why do I do this to myself?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    fairfield ca.
    Posts
    338
    Quote Originally Posted by ckdaboer View Post
    So far NO ONE has been willing or able to answer why any controller is 900 plus dollars. So anyone know exactly why this would b the case? The Difalco and Rudduck at in the 300 dollar range. So what makes these Czech and other controllers worth that much more?
    A lpt of people are very visual. I have a rather quick racer friend rhat i demonstrated a new 3rd eye fet4. First he went 20 laps with his car and controller, rhen switched to the 3rd eye after a few adjustments he was more than a tenth quicker on a 4 second flat track. Switched back to his controller and could not duplicate quick time.It is now up to the racer ro justify the cost of a quicker controller. (Thos test was with an fl based motor) ymmv

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    mechanicsville Virginia
    Posts
    364
    Controllers are not mass produced in China and I doubt they ever will be. This is cult market. The top controllers are crafted and backed in small runs by passionate individuals for passionate racers. It's not about price.
    Anything worth doing is worth overdoing

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    156
    I understand that..... But explain what justifies triple the cost of a DiFalco....

    So continue to try to explain what this controller does that justifies it's cost.....
    CK DaBoer

    Knocked you out of the slot!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Orange County, California
    Posts
    115
    I build a $300.00 controller by hand. Does that mean it is the greatest thing since sliced bread?" No, it means I can take the time to make sure each one works right. If it doesn't, it stays in my workshop.
    I am sending a controller to an electrical engineer because I am having issues with it running without touching the trigger. I have several that I have either not sent out or replaced because of that issue.
    I am a one man shop that works at my own pace. I have restocked my original supply of parts that I received from Dan. The price of these parts was no where as cheap as what Dan paid but they are all current production.
    I now buy precut heat sinks for the DR-40 and have them anodized. The old way was black paint that would not last thru building . Is it expensive? Yes, but that way is much better.
    I do repairs and updates because that is good customer service. I probably lose money on the repairs but I am retired, what else would I do?

    The next time a track charges you $300.00 + for a hand built controller, no matter the builder, remember that the builder is trying to give you the best he can.

    John Andersen
    DR Racing Products

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    528
    Well said John. Don't forget the guy had to build it for even less so the track could make money also.............

    Why does anyone need a $300 controller when there are $50 resistor controllers.
    Why does anyone need a $300 controller to run a $13 motor?
    Why do I do this to myself?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    156
    Apparently the point is being missed?

    It is the performance of the controller that is in question. And the justification of the cost.

    Yes, a resistor controller will run the slot car no issue. The next step up is the external resistor and then the Difalcos and Rudducks. NO issue with that.

    The issue is what does the 1000.00 controller do that these other controllers do not?

    Yes, brake, vary the ohmage, and so forth is a given One or more controllers have meters attached in big boxes. IF all that box did was show track voltage, the same could be done with a volt meter.

    So again, what EXACTLY does the 1000.00 controller do that these others do not?

    No offense too anyone, but I unless someone can come up with a better answer than it is made by hand, at the local raceways where I am located. No controllers with extra boxes or attachments or meters that read voltage will be allowed in the races I run.

    To make the point clearer, we have instituted a local rule that limits the cost of the controller no 350.00 retail or less. And that controller must be available to be sold by the raceway. If not, it is not allowed.....

    Just saying.....
    CK DaBoer

    Knocked you out of the slot!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    148
    Hi CK,

    It's pretty obvious that you've never had the need for any of the more advanced controllers, and the reason can either be that they are "off-limits" or that you have never run a car that can benefit from a more advanced controller. If you run low-powered cars on a banked track the benefits of one of the more advanced controllers might be small.

    The more advanced controllers usually have features that very often are necessary when you run high-power cars, or even over-powered cars.
    First of all the controller should be able to all the current to the car that the power-supply and the track-wiring has to offer, and this should be done with a minimum of losses. So some ways to bypass the wiring and other loss-elements in the controller is needed (relays or transistor-switches).

    Then the controller will have to have features that are able to reduce the power to the car even when the trigger is pushed all the way to the bottom. This is need either to reduces the wear on the motor (typical in wing-cars) or to make the cars easier to drive (Eurosport or OG12) or sometimes both. This is what chokes are doing, and these can be made in several ways. Voltage chokes are reducing the maximum power to the car, and resistance chokes are foremost reacting to the current the motor is pulling (out of the corners) and will also to some extent reduce the power to the car.

    All this is producing heat, and a lot of times this is requiring heats-sinks, very often with a fan if the heatsink is not very big.

    Runing different types of cars on different types of tracks require that the brakes can be adjusted in a wide range. Some cars on some tracks will be perfectly happy with a brake-pot of 0-3 ohm, but other combinations might require that the brakes can be adjusted in a range from 0-30ohm, or the brakes can be turned of completely. There are controllers that offer "anti-brake", which in reality of a "coasting-function" that is known fom H0-cars.

    And then there is the protection of the controllers. The most likely reason for a damaged controller is a racer that has hooked the controller up wrong. Even if racers think that they never hook up wrong they are making mistakes, and sometimes it is damaging part of the circuit. Full protection of an advanced controller is difficult to make, and even then it might reduce some part of the performance. And the it adds cost.

    Steen

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    156
    Your supposition is incorrect. Why is it some people like to try to avoid really answering the questions by using a phrase like that?

    No issue with "advanced controllers" at all. At least not ones like Rudduck or DiFalco.

    There is still no justification for the triple cost of a DiFalco by some of these questionable use controllers.

    Apparently YOU have not used an old style controller with a Koford choke like in the seventies?

    A choke or vary brake or coasting function was also available in older controllers in HO as well.

    So nothing new has been added to conversation and the questionable use controllers should be banned.

    So again, I see no reason at all to not ban the questionable use controllers locally. And we have banned them via a cost and availability factor.
    CK DaBoer

    Knocked you out of the slot!

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