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Thread: Two bodies with only one part number.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    798

    Two bodies with only one part number.

    This years Scale Nats wasn't as much fun for me than I thought it would be. First of all I did poorly in the Production race, totally all my fault. Then I was found to be illegal in GT12, totally not my fault. First time in 30+ years that my car was found illegal for anything. So here's what happened. At tech in I was told that the O/S Bentley that I had purchased to race in the Nats was illegal because it had small winglets on the front fenders. The part number in the rule book is #369 and the part number on the packaging for the 3 bodies I purchased was #369. I even went to last years photos and the winning body looked just like the body I had. As a matter of fact both GT12 and GTP winners in 2018 looked just like my body. So when I was told at tech in that I was illegal I was not a happy camper. The tech guys had a single body mold of the O/S Bentley on the table and it didn't have winglets on the front fenders, they said that only bodies without the winglets were legal. Yet, nearly all the GT12 and GTP racers had bodies like mine. The raceway owner then came out with a stack of unpainted legal #369 bodies, where they came from who knows. I was ready to pull out of the race but Jason Hooper (USRA Pres.) said he would do a body for me and he did his best but there was no way the body would do a full race without proper body reinforcement. I made it two heats before the body got sucked into the gears. I repaired it but then the chassis broke. So much for GT12. I also pulled out of the GTP and NASCAR races. The legal Bentley should have been designated USRA LEGAL, or given a different part number all together. If there was a known conflict with the two bodies that should have been established at the end of the 2018 Nats. I hope this serves as a lesson that even with the right part number you still might be wrong.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    12 miles south of P.A.'s
    Posts
    95
    Jason seems to be good a making up new USRA rules that no one votes on, why didn't he just make the body legal?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    542
    FastFreddie and A G A I N, I will use this time to point out the wisdom, cost savings to the racer AND the track, money savings and space savings to the racer, raceway, distributor, simplicity to attract new racers, fairness and logic of 1 body per class. It sure works for ISRA. But everyone in the US knows better as raceway doors close one by one.

    Everyone screams they want one simple motor, some even have pinion or gear rules yet they have to have 20 body's per class. Funny that very few have 20 "racers" body's in a class.

    You and many others spent your money, prepared, traveled, got a motel and ended up with a very frustrating experience that with leadership would be completely avoidable.
    Why do I do this to myself?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    798
    Thanks for the reply guys. My solution was if 90%+ of the racers wanting to run the #369 body had the same body I had then why not run them, no one would have had an unfair advantage and it wouldn't have taken 2 extra hours to get the race started. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution. I have no problem with one body per class. Funny how they did that in 4" NASCAR and 1/24 Eurosport, no problems there.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,385
    Fred,
    How would of that not been a disadvantage to the 10% of the racers that had legal, inferior bodies?

    And 10 of 14 isn't 90%.

    It's 71.4%.

    Regardless, I can't believe you are blaming the USRA, vs. the producer of the illegal body.

    Rob,
    On Slotblog, and now here, you keep on referring to commercial raceways closing in the US, and the success of Europe.

    Europe doesn't have commercial raceways to close , so your argument is flawed/pointless.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    542
    Mike I know you consider yourself the slotfather. Even you reached a point where X number of magnets were the end of wing cars for you. For others it was X numbers of cheap motors or body's or chassis or tire & hub combos. But what does "racing" have to do with "commercial raceways"? Basements full of HO & 1/32 scale tracks and small groups just like that 24 hr deal a few weeks back in Michigan. Europe it's clubs. People find ways to support it and make it work if they are having fun. In today's fast paced world you change or die.

    Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    “If you think you know everything, there's nothing else to learn, until you learn...you don't know everything.” ― Coach Bridget Burns
    Why do I do this to myself?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    798
    Mike, what you don't understand is that there were no legal bodies available to the general public, even the raceways owner had the wrong bodies until a stack magically appeared. I've purchased that same body in many different places and used it in a couple of races I never saw one without the winglets until the tech in. I was never aware that there was a USRA legal Bentley #369. It doesn't show up anywhere. If the body was illegal last year shouldn't the USRA at least had a picture showing the differences on their web site or Facebook page? By the way there were only 12 racers in GT12. Am I closer to 90% now?
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,385
    I was told there was only 12 because 2 of the guys with the illegal bodies didn't race.

    Russ Martin was one of them.

    So 14 came up, and 10 were sent way, but only 8 of 10 changed bodies and raced.

    10 14 = 71.4%

    It's comical you are blaming the USRA.

    What normal company sells 2 different bodies with 1 stock #?

    Why weren't the legal bodies sold to the racers to begin with?

    The USRA is 100% NOT at fault.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    New Jersey USA
    Posts
    12
    just curious, who made the bodies?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    798
    John, they are O/S bodies.
    Mike, when the O/S Bentley 069 was deemed illegal in 2015 the new body was given the #369 and was revised. The USRA legal version was suppose to have been made without front fender winglets. However, that body has never appeared in any USRA information, not a picture not even an explanation of the differences in the two bodies. Only the #369 appears in the rulebook as the only legal O/S Bentley, the body I had and so did many other GT12 and GTP racers. The body I had also won the 2018 GT12 and GTP classes. If there was a different version of this body since 2015 shouldn't the USRA have put out that information before race day tech in? As you know many bodies don't make the USRA approved list but if a body is produced in two different versions and one of those versions is a "USRA legal" body it should be noted in the rule book. Another thing you may be aware of is that body manufactures are not obligated to produce any bodies just to comply with USRA rules. It's incumbent upon the rules makers to keep the racers updated on any changes to the rules and they do that by ensuring any current year rule books are complete and up to date. All we as racers can do is comply with the rules as they are written, so who is most wrong in this case, the racer who only has the rule book to go by or the rules makers who have access to all the products approved of in the rule book? I'm not saying the manufacture is without fault but it should have been settled before race day tech in and all racers should have been made aware of the differences.
    Last edited by Fast Freddie; 05-05-2019 at 09:46 AM.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    St Charles, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    2,319
    Written rules are the ones that THE COURTS go by, and so must the racers. If the rulebook does not match at the table, BOYCOTT.

    It is the only professional thing to do, other than get the RULEBOOK RIGHT.
    l.d. kelley, M.A. Ramcatlarry@aol.com

    60 year pin 1959-2019
    Racing slot cars in America
    USRA 2019 member
    IRRA, ISRA/USA, Hardbodies 1/24 &
    1/32 - Great Lakes Slot Car Club
    retired raceway owner 1992-2007
    Omni/Cidex service center

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,385
    Fred,
    Was 069 or 369 scribed on the back of the illegal body?

    If it was scribed 069, and you asked for a legal body, it was the raceway's fault, for selling it to you.

    If it was scribed 369, then it was the manufacturers fault.

    The USRA is not at fault, either way.
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Chesapeake, Va.
    Posts
    798
    Mike, I think your missing something here. The only O/S Bentley bodies I have purchased over the last 4 years were #369 on the packaging and on the body flashing. They have all had the winglets on the front fenders. Virtually all the racers at the event, who planned to run the O/S Bentley, had the same body I had, including the raceway owners son, who later obtained the last "legal" Bentley from the miracle stack. If the body was illegal this year then it's been illegal since 2015 and any Scale Nats. winner should be disqualified, correct? If it was known that two bodies existed then the manufacture should have told the USRA and the USRA should have noted it in the rulebook. If the new officers of the USRA had a problem with the body it should have been on their web site or at least on their Facebook page.

    Ramcatlarry, I did boycott the rest of the race. I would have stayed if not for this SNAFU incident. I'm too old for this kind of politics.
    I've done so much with so little for so long it seems like I can do anything with nothing at all.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    New Jersey USA
    Posts
    12

    bad communication

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Freddie View Post
    Mike, I think your missing something here. The only O/S Bentley bodies I have purchased over the last 4 years were #369 on the packaging and on the body flashing. They have all had the winglets on the front fenders. Virtually all the racers at the event, who planned to run the O/S Bentley, had the same body I had, including the raceway owners son, who later obtained the last "legal" Bentley from the miracle stack. If the body was illegal this year then it's been illegal since 2015 and any Scale Nats. winner should be disqualified, correct? If it was known that two bodies existed then the manufacture should have told the USRA and the USRA should have noted it in the rulebook. If the new officers of the USRA had a problem with the body it should have been on their web site or at least on their Facebook page.

    Ramcatlarry, I did boycott the rest of the race. I would have stayed if not for this SNAFU incident. I'm too old for this kind of politics.
    Seems to me the tech table the day of the race wasnt the time to sort all of this out. Both bodies should have benn allowed than sorted out after the race. This kind of frustration is what hurts the sport.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,385
    There were 2 bodies, on the premises, engraved 369, and only the illegal, higher performance one, was available for sale before the race.

    And you are blaming the USRA???

    And you boycotted the rest of the race to punish them?

    How exactly did that punish them?

    Fred Younkin, "Slot Car Comedian". LOL
    "Get Yourself Retrofied"
    Chicagoland Raceway
    17B West Ogden Ave.
    Westmont,Il. 60559
    Phone-708-203-8003
    mikeswiss86@hotmail.com

    Check out Chicagoland Raceway on facebook.

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