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Thread: Can you help identify this stuff please?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, AUS
    Posts
    635

    Can you help identify this stuff please?

    I want to start recording details of my cars, and I'm afraid I know little about the older stuff. I recognise mabuchi motors, but that's about it. What little kit stuff I have I suspect to be hybrids. I'd like to identify this stuff, as it'll help me know what I'm looking at in future. Rather than load a lot of images here, I've put them on my site and just posted links. Some of this stuff is pretty rough, but you should still be able to recognise it.

    1. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0018.JPG Looks like a 26d, but has the remains of a sticker on the side, and a brown wind instead of the mabuchi green one. The arm is dynamically balanced.

    2. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0019.JPG Looks like a mabuchi new 16d, but has a green wind instead of red and the shaft extends from both ends

    3. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0020.JPG Looks like a std 2 hole mura, but it has a graduated paint job (or sticker) on the face

    4. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0021.JPG like a new 16d, but the cas looks chromed and the opposite face doesn't have a hole. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0022.JPG

    5. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0024.JPG Looks like a 26d, but it has the drill hole in the can face, and the arm looks like silver wire. Was there ever a factory silver wire arm or were they all just home made?

    6. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0026.JPG This looks like s 26d, but there's no hole on one side. I assume it's a champion? There's also two additional small holes in the end of the can that aren't in the mabuchi 26d cans. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0027.JPG

    7. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0028.JPG This is smaller than a 16d. Same length, but lower and narrower.

    8. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0029.JPG Well, this one has a champion 601 sticker on it, but it has the extra two small holes in the end of the can. Did mabuchi make these for Champion? Why is the can different? http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0030.JPG

    9. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...C_0032.JPGThis one appears to be a mabuchi 26d with an aurora sticker on it. Did aurora market the 26d this way?

    10. Here's a chapperal hard body car with some russkit stickers on it. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0035.JPG The one next to the driver says Terry Fagan. The chassis looks a bitlike a dynamic, but has some wire side rails. The center section pivots on the back axle, like a drp arm. Motor has a round hole like a new 16d, but the drive is from the endbell end. The screen is missing from the car, but it has what looks like real wire mesh at the back of car and either side of the engine.

    11. This is a soft body roadster. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0037.JPG The chassis looks like a dynamic with a mabuchi ft16 motor. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0038.JPG The brass mount used to mount the body looks like it was made for the body. Is this a complete car, or a new body fitted to an older chassis?

    12. Boring stuff now. This looks similar to a Parma womp. Who made it? http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0039.JPG

    13. This one looks like a plastic model that's had a dynamic frame fitted. The motor has a dynamically balanced arm. Can you identify the frame and motor? http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0040.JPG The arm has silver wire. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0041.JPG

    14. This is a modern body with what looks like an early scratch built frame, made from an old inline frame. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0042.JPG

    Any help in identifying these item would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Steve

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    822

    mystery stuff

    Hi

    Most of this stuff is in PdLs balliwick. I never worried about the factory stuff, anything I bought in the 60s/70s were just PARTS. So, i cannot tell you the diff between a 507 or 517 and so on. I know the gauss of the magnets and all, but not the factory specs. A few things are probably Outside PdLs area, and I will answer those.

    #2 Is a Mabuchi FT-160D from the late 70s and early 80s. The arm is normally a double shafted and used a 65t/30 wind. It came standard in the Best Womp, the anglewinder TwinnK "Super 80", aka Gp32 in europe. The motor is 1mm taller than a 16d of the old days.

    #7 is a Mabuchi FT 130uo, aka Monogram X88, aka "P" can from the mid 60s.

    In General: in the mid 60s when the third generation 16ds came out with their big brass housing and CAN drive(things like the SP80 and the Pactra/Stromie Hemi)can mounts were stronger and worked better than endbell mount, so people commonly drilled a couple holes in the Cans and can mounted all sorts of things. I cannot tell from your photos if these were factory holes or builder holes.

    #12 is a Champion "Thumper" another legal Womp frame, still available.

    #14 is a Womp frame severly lightened probably for a wing womp class.

    Prof.Fate

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Edinboro PA
    Posts
    288

    I.D.

    Well, PDL is the real expert, but what the heck, I'll give it a shot ----
    1) 26D, don't know mfr. ---- BTW, not all Mabuchis had the same wire color
    2) 16D, but puzzling. Newer oval hole, but older can bearing. Maybe a 501?
    3) Mura can with fogged paint job. Factory or not? Don't know.
    4) Definitely a 517 from Champion
    5) 26D home wind IMO. Look how uneven the stack is, & the loose wind.
    6) Champ 601
    7) 13D probably Monogram
    8) Yep, a 601, but see PDL's monolithic reference on the rise & fall of Champion
    9) Error 404 - file not found
    10) Cox IFC Chap body? Not sure.
    11) Yep, Dynamic chassis & 26D. Someone built this from parts. Uses the drop center & "suspension" at both ends. Love the body.
    12) I have no idea.
    13) Looks like a 517 in a Dynamic chassis, solid front, rear suspension.
    14) No help on this one either.

    Okay, now when PDL gets here, I'll see how well I scored on the Geezermeter. If I get 7 or more, I expect free track time on your track

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    3,537

    Talking Expert is better than ex-pervert.

    Well, all right. What did you do, fish them out of a pond? They are, to say the least, a bit rusty. It gives them that "vintage" look...
    Oh well.

    1: Kal-Kar version of the Mabuchi FT26. Brown wire means that the spec was slightly different from the standard blue wire. Understand that Mabuchi made what you asked them to do. Try that today...

    2: Beat-up Mabuchi FT16D series 1970 issue. Armature wire is not original, and the clip around the motor plus the wrong type end bell shows that this is a concoction of parts.

    3: Mura "A" can. This is Mura's first home-made (no longer a Mabuchi can) motor. Issued in 1968.

    4: Champion "517" can with standard FT16 rewound with blue (#32) wire from a FT26 motor...
    Again, a concoction of parts.

    5: FT26 motor butchered up and with either a French, Mura, U-Go or Lenz arm. They all were based around San Francisco and all used that "silver" (silver-coated copper wire) wire in 1968. I have not been able to determine yet if one did the work for all the others.

    6: Champion 601 "Evo". Also a can for the Champion "607". Mabuchi made cans with one blind side and mounting holes for end bell and motor bracket for Champion only.
    The relation with Mabuchi dated from 1964, and as most US manufacturers, Champion was outraged at the huge price increase and minimum quantities imposed by Mabuchi on the then collapsing industry, and preferred to make their own motors.

    7: Mabuchi FT13UO, specifically, a Monogram X88 can that had a hard life.

    8: Mabuchi made special cans for Champion. The "stock" 601 is a "selected" motor, while the "bad" ones are dewound, a new comm and nylon insulators installed and rewound with the dark brown wire, then epoxied and balanced. It then becomes a "607" or "617" depending if mounted in the same can or the new Champion thicker, chrome-plated can. This "601" can with broken tabs is good for the thrash. How much you paid for this again?

    9: Here is the proper link to your pic: http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0032.JPG
    This is a K&B "Jaguar" can, but someone has butchered it and it no longer has the original yellow end bell that came with it. K&B sold the motor separately and in two of their scarce late series RTR's: the Chaparral 2D (sidewinder Kangaroo chassis) and the very rare Ford GT40 MKII (inline Hot Shot chassis). While the motors and chassis are rather easy to find, the car in its original box is one of the most difficult slot cars from the 1960's to find.
    I am myself aware of only ONE intact car in ONE intact box...

    10: That anyone could have mistaken this piece of cheap Japanese crapola with the fine and accurate COX Chaparral is beyond me...Only two possible explanations:
    -1/ You need stronger glasses.
    -2/ You need to get out more often, and to try girls this time. The sheep will no longer do.
    This abomination came from a cheap fifty-cent kit from Marusan. Nothing can be done with it as all the proportions are abominable. It is however, one of the few Chaparral made in Japan at the time.
    Regardless, throw it away!

    11: The mold for this International Engineering Cord was stolen from the Monogram static kit by that thief Walter Petitt. The Dynamic parts-chassis has nothing to do with it and the body mount is home made.

    12: Champion. Waaaaayyy after the good ole days.

    13: Champion can, Mura or Lenz or French or U-Go arm, in a Dynamic-a-dime-a-dozen chassis with some AMT or Revell plastic kit body. Take the motor out (just because it appears in much less distressed shape than all the above) and sell the rest on
    e-Pay.

    14: See chassis #12 (issued in the early 1980's) and draw your own conclusions...

    Flush this stuff.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    154

    Talking You sweet-talking devil...

    Geez Phil, how did you miss out on a career in the French Diplomatic Corp? With your tactful mien, Ho Chi Min would have turned the country over to you and saved all those unnecessary deaths.
    Ed
    PS - any luck with that Champion 517bb for my vintage project?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, AUS
    Posts
    635

    It's all good news....

    It means I can run this stuff around the track without worrying that I am damaging a rare and valuable classic! That's what I bought it for in the first place. If you've got more trash like this, don't toss it, send it to me where it will be put to good use. Send me one of those Mura B-can motors you hate while you're at it :-)

    I actually got 7 of these 26d style motors, plus a few extra cans. When I saw the clips made to hold the end bells on, because the fold-over tabs had broken off from being opened and closed too many times, it reminded of similar things I did in the 60's and 70's myself when trying new winds on 26d blanks.

    I'm compiling a file of TSRF's responses on this forum. They are a wealth of information.

    The only thing you didn't cover is the frame in item 10. Is it a homemade mod based on a dynamic chassis or what?

    Regs,

    Steve

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    3,537

    Talking Diplomat, eh? Is that a Cuban?

    "Geez Phil, how did you miss out on a career in the French Diplomatic Corp? With your tactful mien, Ho Chi Min would have turned the country over to you and saved all those unnecessary deaths."

    That's my opinion, but some f--k named Robert Mac Namara chose to lie instead to the American public, and in turn, the American public decided that he was a great guy. Go figure...

    "PS - any luck with that Champion 517bb for my vintage project?"

    I have it, but I just returned from the old (really old) country and I need to breathe a bit first from cheese over-ingestion. A bit of red wine will help.

    "It means I can run this stuff around the track without worrying that I am damaging a rare and valuable classic!"

    Exact-a-mundo.

    "If you've got more trash like this, don't toss it, send it to me"

    Too late. I donated them to the Technical Refuse Engineers (garbage men in the old days) a long time ago. Just kidding, we use this stuff to teach the kids of the Marconi Foundation.

    "When I saw the clips made to hold the end bells on, because the fold-over tabs had broken off from being opened and closed too many times, it reminded of similar things I did in the 60's and 70's myself when trying new winds on 26d blanks."

    Now you know what they are worth.

    "I'm compiling a file of TSRF's responses on this forum. They are a wealth of information."

    Opinions may differ. Don't try this at home, stunts performed by trained monkeys. Do not lean over the guard rail. Brakes will slow down the vehicle if used. Reading this label may cause injury or death to your cat. This message uses 2% FDA-approved Gray #5.

    "The only thing you didn't cover is the frame in item 10. Is it a homemade mod based on a dynamic chassis or what?"

    I'd say if it was made in a home, I don't want to live there. I may be safer in the garage with the cockroaches.

    Best regards,
    Robert Mac P

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, AUS
    Posts
    635

    Opps! i never posted the pic.

    I just realised why you didn't comment of the frame in item 10....'cos I didn't post the link. Here it is

    http://www.members.optushome.com.au/...t/DSC_0034.JPG

    Steve

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    3,537

    Wink Nice frame, Britney.

    That's a Champion "Snuggler MKII" from 1967. The die cast aluminum chassis is stronger and faster than a Dynamic. The wire form is an ISO front wheel mount articulated around the rear axle. You should keep this one, it does not look in too bad of a shape. But you need to find the correct Taper-Lok rear wheels with silicone or spong tires, the Williams crown gear and the rear straight axle. The front wheels are correct and so are the body mounts, but the solder in them needs to be polished off. The motor looks pretty clean too, and the can appears to be of the "517" variety. If only the arm would be...and the ARCO mags...and the correct end bell with nickel-plated pentroof brush holders...and if some kid did not butcher-up every possible aspect of this old thing...

    After you dump the ugly Chappie bod, I recommend the use of one of the many bods Champion used on those chassis. Best would be a Lotus 40 painted in metallic blue. Champion had the use of the Russkit mold after Russkit tanked the "Carrera Series" in 1968, and had them painted in blue. They used the ubiquitous Pactra decals from the standard and very common Pactra 2.5" X 4" sheet.
    Electric Dreams will soon have a Russkit Lotus 40 replica body as Victor Ferguson is getting pretty close to finishing about 5-6 molds for us.
    Philippe

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    822

    Picture Number 2

    Has the correct endbel and arm as sold by Twinn K in 1980>85. The clip was also sold by the Winns for the motor. Bet the endbell has "FT 160D" molded on it.

    Fate

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, AUS
    Posts
    635

    Some good news at last ...

    Thanks for the update on the chappie chassis, but I don't know about the motor. It has the white endbell with the hexagonal brush holder, same as the 26ds etc, the can looks like it has the self centering bearing housing in the end, even though it's an endbell end drive, and not a can end drive. The arm is unbalanced with green wire. The motor has a sticker on the side that says "made in hong kong", but then the body has a Russkit sticker on it, so you can't believe stickers!

    Regards,

    Steve

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    3,537

    Yo Steve...

    Send us the URL with a photo of the car with the body removed, shot 3/4 side front and 3/4 side back. Mysteries can easily be solved with a contribution to the Marconi Foundation for Kids, so think about entering our races:
    http://www.geocities.com/marconiprox...P2002-HOME.htm
    PdL

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5

    Can You Help Identify This Stuff Please

    #7 the x88 rings a bell. I have a Monogram Midget w/motor that used a Tiger x88 motor. It was slimmer than the regular one to fit the chassis/body. I ran this for yucks by itself at the track in East Hartford in 1975 or so. It ran and still should. Not fast but handled surprisingly well.

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