1/24 Eurosport Results

**brassy** · 04-18-2004, 10:21 AM

Paul, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree but your responses seem to indicate that you are not clearly understanding what I am proposing.

I am ONLY suggesting using video to back-up the track's lap counter for a contested heat, not to replace the lap counter (or hand counting) in subsequent heats if the lap counter is determined to be inoperative or inaccurate. Only as a back-up so that heats would not have to be restarted if it is determined that the track lap counter was not accurate during a heat. You are correct that video would be unwieldy if it had to be used as the primary lap counter for an entire race. But that's not what I am proposing.

We seem to have had lap counter issues at well over half the Nats since 1990 and I think it is past time for us to do a little "outside of the box" thinking to try to address the problem.

Do you, or anyone else, have any better ideas?

**oldweirdherald** · 04-18-2004, 11:13 AM

I am ONLY suggesting using video to back-up the track's lap counter for a contested heat, not to replace the lap counter (or hand counting) in subsequent heats if the lap counter is determined to be inoperative or inaccurate.

This was the case. There had been enough track calls to check things, etc., so enough was enough. The race director and officials opted after extinguishing all other options to revert to a complete hand count backup.

So.... what I am saying, is that the video backup would not have been practical in this case, as well as in any similar situations.

I guess I'll see you in Tulsa with your high-speed slow motion camera, tripods, video monitor, eye drops, and NoDoze.... where you can test your theory, if the USRA would like to see how it would work...

**LoudCat** · 04-18-2004, 11:26 AM

The folks who counted laps took their job very seriously. One person counted red for the entire race, another counted white for the entire race and so on. They did an excellent job and were very accurate. We know they were very accurate because in almost every case where the cars laps were counted by the computer, the human count agreed with the computer count. I say almost because a few times the human count differed from the computer count by one. Fortunately, these small descrepencies did not effect the final order of finish. After the race, the numbers were added up and rechecked several times. The addition was done by the two race directors and myself. All of the racers I discussed the results with thought the results were correct. There was no protest.

We could test the video camera idea but I suspect even a 3 CCD camera would have trouble with these very fast cars. Andy W. suggested an optical system be used as a backup. These counters use a downward pointing light beam with a lap counted whenever the beam is broken

**JimHT** · 04-18-2004, 11:46 AM

There's no big expense or hassle involved with another lap counter strip & computer elsewhere on the track, to be used if necessary.
It is the Nats & the USRA can stipulate such a thing.
For those who would object to another dead strip, what's a dead strip? Haven't had one on my tracks for years. The dead strip can be eliminated easily with the SRT system & some bridge rectifiers.
Optical systems are as reliable as the strip but it is difficult to keep track of laps when a car crosses sideways & trips more than one lane.

**CruzinBob** · 04-18-2004, 01:20 PM

I agree with the video option. As a reporter of SoCal USRA racing in the early 90's I setup and taped at least a dozen+ monthly races. It was a little work but not too hard really. I have lots of video from that time...a neat little clip of Beuf at Hot Laps in Simi Valley, CA flying straight into the camera and another time straight into a trash can...

I do believe however that it is a rare occasion that problems occur with the lap counter. I've had NO problems wiith SRT in the last ten years other than operator failure.

**brassy** · 04-18-2004, 07:22 PM

I've no plans to attend Tulsa, so that's out.

But there is a very good chance that the idea will be tested in a regional USRA series this fall.

We really ought to consider some sort of backup system at the two Nats races. History shows this is a problem often enough that it's worth addressing.

**returnoftheJedi** · 04-19-2004, 05:56 AM

Lets not condemn the ones who help and took away there oppt. to watch a awsome race, would also add to this that Paul G's total was right on. I believe that it all came out correct, as the last heat Paul and I race side by side for most of it while each of us thinking we were racing for the win, as the gear seam to be the diff. All in all it went down very well.

Mike S.

**brassy** · 04-19-2004, 06:18 AM

I hope no one has interpreted my comments as suggesting any problem with the human lap counters in Portland, because I definitely do not hold that feeling.

My point is that lap counter problems at Nats races occur with some regularity and we ought to take proactive steps to provide a backup of some sort. Restarting heats due to lap counter issues is not particular fair to all racers across the board and we should be able to provide some sort of lap counter back-up system to keep from having to do this.

**Ron Hershman** · 04-19-2004, 07:23 AM

I concur with what Mike Stahl posted.....

I counted laps in the B main of the Euro Sports and it was not that difficult to do so correctly.

I pitted Paul Gawronski in the A main and I knew after two heats it was a race between Mike Stahl, Greg Gilbert and Paul.

Not knowing exactly where they all were, I knew after three it was going to be a race between Mike and Paul as long as they did not have major problems. I actually believe Mike Stahl was leading the race until he lost his spur gear.

Bem Mc Guire, who was "up in the loft" the entire race kept saying Paul was the leader and winner of the race without question.

A longer "dead strip" would correct the problem.

It's amazing that only Gawronski's car was the ONLY car to count EVERY LAP EVERY LANE.

**Paul Ciccarello** · 04-19-2004, 07:45 AM

It's amazing that only Gawronski's car was the ONLY car to count EVERY LAP EVERY LANE.

I guess I know how to build a car that counts laps.

Paul

**circuitguy70** · 04-19-2004, 09:22 AM

**Ron Hershman** · 04-19-2004, 10:36 AM

They can keyboard all they want....lol...the Nats are over and offical ( look at the photo's and the guys holding the trophies).....all of the recounting was done at the race and verified three times before making the offical race finish announcement.

Hey Paul C.....did you mount that winning Outisight Cadilac body on the winning car???? LOL

If ya did...thanks!!!!!

**LoudCat** · 04-19-2004, 12:48 PM

I’m pretty sure Paul G. was the only guy in the A main who was never off the track with mechanical problems. He was in some crashes but kept it going fast the whole way. This is his 4th win in a row. Mike Stahl drove a great race. Quick, smooth and stayed out of trouble - not much more a driver can do. Tough break losing 10+ laps with gear problems. Greg may have been leading or near to it early on but slowed near the end and his car was on the floor several times.

Another exciting moment was the qualifying run by young Jonathan Forsyth. He proved it was no fluke as he ran several laps in the 0’s and low teens. He got quite a round of applause too.

**Paul Ciccarello** · 04-19-2004, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Ron Hershman
Hey Paul C.....did you mount that winning Outisight Cadilac body on the winning car???? LOL If ya did...thanks!!!!!

No, Paul G. took care of that one

Paul

**GearBear** · 04-19-2004, 02:13 PM

I would like to thank the people who counted for us in this race. I think they did an awsome job! I qualified terribly and was on a mission to win my main. Unfortunately I made a tactical error and didn't change tires before going onto white lane. About half way through the heat I had to manage my tires and Chris caught up. Then after changing tires and heading to red I had to hold Chris off who was on blue. There was no way I could do that and Chris took the win. I pushed too hard and made too many mistakes. This was probably the cleanest euro race I have ever driven. I managed to stay clean for the first 3 1/2 heats and continued on to the 6th heat with only 1 or 2 wrecks. I know Chris wasn't quite as clean but his car was very fast. We drove side by side for a couple of heats in with Jamy a few laps behind us but pacing us even though she was way down in Horsepower.

If Jamy had been running my car I have a feeling she would have been up near the top as she drove the heck out of that car getting every last bit out of it! I'm very proud of her racing this last week! You can be sure she will be one of the major people to beat at this years Slugfest/Worlds in Puyallup!